Antialiasing 2dwireframe slow response

jim78b
edited August 18 in Moving from A-CAD

i have win10 with INTEL I7 4770 3.4GHZ 4a gen with 16mega of ram

nvidia quadro p2000

but bricscad is very laggy with antialiasing activated.i tried all possible options.

i am very disappointed of this because autocad 2025 is more faster

What options could I activate to speed up?


: REDSDKINFO
RedSDK version: 5.1 (build 5971)
RenderUsingHardware: Hybrid hardware/software mode with preferred hardware rendering.
OpenGL window creation succeeded.
Operating system: Win_ten64
Desktop composition (Aero) is enabled.
Local GPU:
GPU information:
name: 'NVIDIA Quadro P2000'
chipset: 'GXXX'
class: 'HW_NVIDIA_G400'
asicID: '0x1c30'
vendorID: '0x10de'
recommended driver: 'Operating system proprietary graphic driver'
Installed driver:
driver: 'NVIDIA Forceware 573.65'
dll version: ''
This driver is newer than all internal known revisions.
validation: 'Ok'
Installed driver is up-to-date.
Selected GPU (created for GPU check):
Chipset: HW_NVIDIA_G400
Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation ( IsNVidia )
OpenGL version: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 573.65
Renderer: Quadro P2000/PCIe/SSE2

:

Comments

  • BricsCAD is not optimized for Quadro cards, or more accurate there and no Quadro drivers specific for BricsCAD as there are for AutoCAD, Solidworks etc. so BricsCAD does not use the full capabilities of the Quadro card.

    If you are using a desktop computer (i.e. not laptop) and you do not need the card to be a Quadro card you may want to swap it with a more recent Geforce RTX card or a midrange Nvidia RTX card (the successor to the Quadro) if you need the Quadro functionality. The P200o is not a really powerful card these days, it being some 8 years old.

    That being said, it could still be a driver issue and you may want to check at the Nvidia website if there is a more recent driver (it is currently at version 580 when I do a quick look)

  • thanks, i have the last driver installed. So if I change my PC in the future, do I have to buy a GeForce not a Quadro? And what if I use SolidWorks? Is this a difficult choice? Choosing the card based on the program or not?

  • The software you intend to use usually have a graphics cards supported list some where.

    Found this

    https://files.solidworks.com/videocarddriver/patches/Release_Notes_Graphics_Support_Patch.txt?_gl=1*1nzavwm*_ga*MjU0MDE2Mzg3LjE3NTU1NzY0ODA.*_ga_XQJPQWHZHH*czE3NTU1NzY0NzkkbzEkZzAkdDE3NTU1NzY0ODEkajYwJGwwJGgw*_gcl_au*NTM2ODU2ODMxLjE3NTU1NzY0ODI.

  • but if in the future bricscad not work properly and i want use autocad again, i know that autocad support only quadro cards is right?

  • RSW
    RSW
    edited August 19

    AutoCAD, Solidworks etc. also works fine on GeForce and equivalent AMD graphics cards.

    Quadro/RTX and their AMD counterpart require special drivers tailored to the CAD (or other) software to make the most out of these cards, assuming the software will actually use those capabilities of the Quadro/RTX cards. The GPUs are often the same as for the high(er) end consumer graphics cards. Unless you realý need the advanced options of the Quadro/RTX cards you are probably better off with a GeForce card.

    When you look at the price/raw performance ratio a GeForce card might make more sense if you do no need a Quadro. I.e. for the same amount of money the GeForce card generally has a faster GPU and has more VRAM.

    Some CAD programs actually work better on a regular graphics card than on a Quadro/RTX card when there are no specific Quadro/RTX drivers for that CAD program.

  • RSW
    RSW
    edited August 19

    This is basically a list of Quadro and equivalent cards, i.e. graphics cards for which there is a CAD program, in this case SolidWorks, specific driver to enable the use of the card specific functionality.

    A lot of people think that Quadro/RTX cards are more powerful than their GeForce counterparts but that is not necessarily the case. This has been confirmed by several cad support people I have been talking to about which graphics card to get, including AutoCAD distributor support desk.

    The general rule is that a Quadro/RTX (or AMD equivalent) card only makes sense if there are specific drivers for the software that you want to use it with AND if that software can/does actually use the cards capabilities that you want to use. If you are not going to use the advanced capabilities then there is basically almost no point for getting one except for maybe a bit more stability.

    In almost all other cases you are better off with a "consumer/prosumer" card. For the same price as the Quadro/RTX card you would then have aGeForce card with faster GPU and more VRAM which would generally be of more use than spending that amount on a "non-supported" Quadro/RTX card.

    With a GeForce card it is generally better to use the Studio driver for better stability than using the gaming driver which is updated at a faster speed for supporting the latest games. Studio drivers are tested more thoroughly for stability for use with content creation, i.e. DTP, general 3D software and though not specific for CAD software it does benefit CAD software as well.

  • RSW
    RSW
    edited August 19

    @Jim78b On another note, did you file a support request for this issue? It could be a BricsCAD specific bug that you are running into.

    E.g. a long time ago I had to make 3D renders in AutoCAD and it took about an hour per render. Then after two renders I loaded the same DWG 3D model into Vectorworks and it took 5 minutes per render and had a much better render quality than AutoCAD on the same machine without having made any changes to the DWG file (i.e. no optimazations etc, just using the Vectorworks default settings). So I did all the renders in Vectorworks. Sometimes it is not the hardware that is the issue.

    When you say that AutoCAD is faster, how much faster are we talking about, e.g. 10 times faster as in my example above or e.g. 10% or 20% faster?

  • Thanks for the comprehensive reply. Over the years I've been working with NVIDIA Quadro cards, but now when I have to buy a new PC, I'm using Bricscad or AutoCAD mostly in 2D, but I often work in 3D. Which GeForce card would you recommend? Thanks.

  • Maybe I am stating something you already know but will mention it for the sake of being complete

    With nVidia GeForce graphics cards the first two digits indicate which generation of cards it is and the latter two digits are an indication for the kind of performance to expect.

    E.g. GeForce RTX 4050 is the previous generation entrance GPU and the GeForce RTX 5050 is the current generation entrance GPU and they should not be considered for most CAD work unless it is light to moderate 2D work.

    The minimum you should get is a xx60 (super) GPU of the current or previous generation and are sufficient for 2D and not to extreme 3D, in most cases the xx70 or xx70 Super/Ti would be the sweet spot between price and performance for CAD.

    The xx80 and xx90 versions would be suitable for very heavy 3D work etc. but are costly, consume also a lot of power and generally speaking produce quite a bit more heat as well that may cause GPU and CPU to throttle their speed to reduce the heat, unless you heave really good cooling.

    This all assuming they will not change the naming convention in the near future.

  • I have RTX 4080 super card, often work with heavy 3D files. I must admit I expected much bigger increase in efficiency over old (~8 years) low level quadro card, I have in other computer. CAD does not use most of graphic card resources, for example I do not remember card memory usage over 2 GB. For occasional rendering I use free Blender program, which renderer (especially using graphic card driver) is many times more efficient then Bricscad.

  • Wow thanks for explanation. So It's important that I get a GPU that starts with the word GeForce and not Quadro, right? Then I think I'll get a GPU that works with large 3D drawings in DWG.

  • Rendering and 2D/3D Viewport are two different things.

    Bricscad has no ambitions in Rendering. It has the same basic CPU Raytracing, Material System, since years. Basically what I had in another CAD in the mid 90ies. Their 3rd party Graphic Engine would have offered much more.

    2D/3D Viewport of Bricscad, to be honest if you load the same large project feels weaker than my other CAD/BIM/3D Apps. When it's still manageable in other Apps it may be already lagging in Bricscad.
    I do not quite get that, as quite some years, ago I watched a release presentation BIM video with a huge industrial project with tons of pipes and steel stairs, presented from a Laptop and moving fluidly. I thought my projects might be a problem because using the Mac version but for me it was not really better on the "unlimited" Windows PC either.

    Generally CAD's Viewports are optimized for Solids Geometry and do not like Meshes vs vice versa 3D Apps. CADs are used to have many many single objects having relatively simple geometry. On the other side 3D Apps work best with only few complex objects which can have millions of Polygons.

    In the past CADs Viewports went down to their knees if you had a few complex Meshes in your file, like from library elements like furniture. Meanwhile most CAD's got better tolerance for Meshes at a certain degree.

    Usually in CADs, a current generations GPU is not really the bottleneck. It may not help to throw more hardware on it. You need to have just "enough" RAM and VRAM to fit your Model in, which is usually not a problem. Nevertheless, although, especially in Bricscad, many things that are possible are multithreaded, for CAD and Modeling, single core performance and memory throughput helps most and gets much better over the years. This is where the Thread starters hardware may be much weaker.

    As for Blender (3D App), it offers decent Viewport performance (GPU) as well as offering usage of CPU and GPU for its Rendering. And there constant meetings about graphics and rendering, with people from Nvidia, AMD, Intel and Apple participating about optimizing Vulkan and Metal to help making their products shine in Blender. For CPU or GPU Rendering, raw numbers of speed and cores will help. So you are quite privileged with your RTX 4080 (Of course an utterly expensive RTX 5090 will be faster and warmer though).

  • zoomer
    edited August 20

    For Bricscad yes.

    If you are mainly using Apps supporting or some even mandatory demanding Pro GPUs (Catia, Autodesk, ProE ?, …), their Drivers can really accelerate certain tasks and offer better stability. Where a relatively cheap Pro Card from AMD or Nvidia can outperform the highest Gaming GPUs and it may be worth to go with these.
    But most other CADs (Microstation, Vectorworks, …..) work best and recommend standard Gaming GPUs with their current Gaming or Studio Drivers. So basically an affordable current Gaming PC with enough memory may be a very good CAD station, at least for the bang of the buck. And an expensive Workstation may be outdated after 2-3 years anyway.

    As said in the post above, not sure if that will solve all issues in Bricscad with your project. Maybe there is a lot of potential in File optimization. But from the hardware specs, for me it, with overall speed increases, it looks also promising.

  • Ok thanks .and a Intel core i9 Is the best solution ?

  • Jason Bourhill
    edited August 20

    If you're VISUALSTYLE = 2dWireframe, then you're not using the Redway engine, this is only used for rendered visual styles.

    A few things to check:

    • Make sure ANTIALIASSCREEN = 1. If it's set to a higher value it can have a big impact on performance.
    • If you are working with drawings that have Images/PDF attached, then it is important that IMAGEDISKCACHE = 1 (is on). If it's off it will impact on performance.
    • Set your graphics to High performance. Per BricsCAD System Requirements go into Windows Graphics Settings and:
    1. Pick the Add desktop app button.
    2. Browse for the BricsCAD app.
    3. Set the GPU preference to High Performance.

    Jason Bourhill

    CAD Concepts Ltd

    cadconcepts.co.nz

  • I did It thanks but like AutoCAD i prefer antialiasing. In AutoCAD with antialiasing activated Is very fast in brics cad antialiasing set to 2 ...Is slow

  • RSW
    RSW
    edited August 20

    Not necessarily, it depends on the base (= default) clock speed and the maximum turbospeed it is capable of.

    e.g. an i7 with a base clock speed of 4.2 GHz will perform faster than an i9 with a base clock speed of 3.8 GHz until the turbospeed gets activated, then the maximum turbospeed may make the difference if there as a large difference. BricsCAD may not use all cores, as most CAD processes are still single core because of the serial nature of commands, it is with rendering etc. where the multiple cores will start to make a difference. Some background processes may be run by another core but Bricsys should be able to tell more clearly what is using more than one core.

    To make it more complex, most modern Intel processors have power cores and efficiency cores (weaker cores that use less power). You may want to check on that as well before deciding on getting an i7 or an i9 depending on your usage scenario.

    There is a trend to offload display rendering and 3D rendering to the GPU as much as possible, some CAD programs are further on that than others, perhaps @Lyubov Osina could give some more information on where BricsCAD stands at the moment.

    As @zoomer already mentioned, like I also said, it may not be necessary to get a Quadro/RTX card unless you are using software that can take full advantage of them when doing 3D etc. that would benefit from it.

    Given what you said you are doing in CAD it sounds like that you might be equally or better off with a lower cost good GeForce xx60 or xx70 (super/Ti) instead of a more expensive Quadro/RTX card for basically the same performance.(xx = 40 or 50)