Bug fixes for 2.20027 without paying $95!
The upgrade to 3.1 have several bug fixes found in 2.20027 - so to get the bug fixes I mus pay 95 bucks???? Looks quite ironic to me. Jaime
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There are not only bug fixes, but also a number of new features that justify a major upgrade and everybody is free to buy the upgrade or not.
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I agree with Jaime, after suffering for more than a year, and paid for a product that was supposed to work well out of the box, it´s quit ironic to pay more $95 to a produt that "it´s nearly ok"! I don´t want extra features now, I just want a reliable product that I can trust. So I will wait and see what will happen to Bricscad. For now I don´t see any reason to pay the $95.Marcelo
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The 3.1 must have some or lots of increases, but the problems with the immediately anterior version (2.20027) still. So, why not release a "bug fix" version, whitout the improvements?Jaime
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We purchased a copy of Intellicad a while back, because of problems we were having with AutoCAD LT. I had tried a trial version, and though the bugs in the program prevented us from actually drawing in the program, it was useful enough for us just as a drawing recovery utility. (we were getting corrupt files from LT) However, when it came time to purchase upgrades to our existing AutoCAD programs, I had to abandon any ideas of using Intellicad because of its bugs. I ended up buying a full-blown AutoCAD 2002 and several upgrades to LT. I really would have preferd to get away from Autodesk because of past experiences, and was very hopeful that Bricsnet could offer true competition. But, if Bricsnet is charging for upgrades before they fix the broken prior release, then they get filed under the same heading as Autodesk, in my book.
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I do not agree with those negative arguments. I've bought intellicad and architecturals and an anual support contract. Thanks to this support contract I got a new license-key and it costs me only 95$ a year.I agree that there are a few bugs in the program, but witch program is bug-free? I use intellicad on a daily base and I find it a great product witch improves avery new release.
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I have used Intellicad since '98. It has a couple of bugs, but so does Acad. Even if we pay $95 every couple of years, it is not like the HUGE (comparatively speaking) for Acad. I can work around the very few bugs I have found.
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I have upgraded to 3.2.0001 and use it. You can tell from some of my posts that I have not read the manual that much, and yet I can still get along with Intellicad, A LOT BETTER THAN UNCLE "OTTO" cad and a lot less $$$$. Most software vendors charge a yearly maintenance fee, some a lot higher than the $95.00 being asked for here. I have exported intellicad drawings to uncle "OTTO" cad and to microstation version 8 with very little difficulty. Count me in!
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You folks seem to be missing the point. Bricsnet and Bricscad didn't offer Intellicad2000 as a pretty close aproximation to Autocad. They said it was completely comparable and compatable with Autocad and they sold Permanent licenses. Now, I don't know about you folks but my definition of permanent means forever. Bricsnet has been trying to "get it right" with Intellicad since they started with it and haven't made it yet. If you people are satisfied with a company that won't honor its previous commitments then that's your choice, but don't try to convince me how wonderful the product is and that I should be happy with it because that "big bad Autodesk" charges thousands of dollars for its product. Cheating the consumer is still cheating whether it's for 4 grand or 100 bucks.
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I have been very satisfied with Intellicad since version '98. We have been using both Autocad and Intellicad in our office since Autocad r14 and Intellicad '98 and have had no difficulties. As far as a "permanent" license, I don't recall that ever being mentioned in our agreement with Bricsnet/Bricscad. I suppose you could consider it permanent for the version for which it was purchased. I must agree that $95 looks very good compared to $600 for an Autocad upgrade.
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I´m not talking about Upgrade, just bugfixes - example: the danm window can´t acquire the other border in plot command. To me this is a basic trouble and never have been solved... waiting...cheers,Jaime
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I know compared to ACAD ICAD is a great deal. And I know if Autodesk wasnt so greedy and BricsCAD wasnt underselling them by so much we would all still be using ACAD. But what bothers me isnt the $95 for the upgrade enhancements (most of which dont impress me, Im not going to use Chinise charactors, I dont attach URLs...) but its the bugs. There are bugs going back to 2.2.001 that have not been properly addressed (and may never be). We should never have to ge too used to "work arounds" for things they know are not right. I also know there is little direct profit in fixing bugs. warrenty work never is. But its these things that make me hesitant to give ICAD a great recommendation to others, its always "Its a great price but theres all these bugs".And Im leary of the enhancements. The Leader Line per v3.1 (probably the same as 3.2) has repeatable bugs in it. Does Beta Test catch these things? I should not have to.But I will grudgingly pay the $95 (even though I payed I think $110 for v2.2)J
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Jaime,In case you haven't caught on yet, Bricscad fixes the bugs with their upgrades. You want the fix, pay the$95.00. As for me I'm cutting my losses and switching to Cadopia's version of Intellicad.
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WHAT ARE THE NEW FEATURES? I HAVE NEVER SEEN A LIST. I AGREE 95 DOLLARS IS NOT BAD FOR AN UPGRADE, BUT WHAT HAS BEEN UPGRADED, BESIDES THE NEW COST?
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BricsCad needs a marketing division.
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Bricsnet offers a 30-day trial before purchase of a license. This should be sufficient to decide if you want to purchase a permanent license or not. After that, it is the privilege of the vendor to decide when to upgrade to a new main version number, and the privilege of the user to take or leave the offer presented to him when they do. If anyone were expecting a lifetime of free upgrades with their license, I can only say welcome to the real world. I'm sure people are still using AutoCad R12 out there.The other Intellicad vendors have comparable license agreements, but are generally much slower at sending out bugfix releases. Bricsnet/Bricscad have been posting a bugfix release approximately every second month, with the other vendors you can't expect more than one release per year, at the same cost. The current BricsCad Intellicad version is a stable (but not bug-free) Cad product well suited for a production environment. It is worth it's license cost and more. Version 2.2.0027 probably is not, mainly because of the undo bugs. By upgrading now, you are also supporting further development of the product.
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I would have to agree with A Vaernes.
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All right guys. I can admit, this is a cheaper product. But if you wanna sell a product with the purpose to be a ACAD substitute and/or concorrent, some minor - basic -bugs must go out!Yes, I caught the message, and have payed this "upgrade", but I will not agree with the argument of the "worstless is better".cheers,Jaime
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When I purchased my permanent license from Bricsnet I certainly didn't assume it would be for all Releases of of their versions of Intellicad, I did belive, because it was so stated, that all upgrades to Bricsnet's Intellicad2000 would be free. Herein lies the problem. I did not recieve a workable and reliable version of Intellicad2000 until upgrade 3.1.0009 and it had some new bugs as well as some old ones that weren't fixed and some old ones that were reinstalled. Now I haven"t been charged for any of the previous upgrades, but here comes upgrade 3.2.0001 which is supposed to fix the bugs in 3.1.0009 and now if we want the fixes to the bugs in a program we already bought we have to fork over another $95.00. My question to BricsCad is "Is this 3.2.0001 still Intellicad2000 or a completely new Release of Intellicad?". If this is a completely new Release then BricsCad needs to stop playing games and get a final debugged and working version of Intellicad2000 (the CAD program we all puchased from Bricsnet/BricsCad) out to its customers. After that Bricscad can release whatever new version of Intellicad it wants to. To those at BricsCad I say I do live in the 'Real World' and I honor my commitments to my clients even if it means a rduction in profit because my word is my bond. BricsCad has an obligation to those initial customers to give them the finished product as advertised, promised and SOLD.
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I mistakenly signed in as Guest above.Kevin Smith
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I also agree with Vaernes comments above....Acad=$3000 per license purchase plus $595 per license upgrade cycle plus $495 for each concurrent license for networks(new starting as of July 1 for network license manager).IC=$195 per license purchase plus $95 per year for all upgrades and bug fixes and no additional concurrent network license fee!Get real about what to expect from vendors!!
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I don't care whether you pay $40,000.00 for a Lexus or $20,000.00 for a Chevy the product should do what it was advertised to do. If the wheels come off the Chevy only an Idiot would say 'Hey at leat I'm not paying $40,000.00.
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I have to say that I have some sympathy for Kevins point of view. That the software was inexpensive and that the upgrade is inexpensive (actually its 50% of new which would be like ACAD asking $2000 for an upgrade but its all relative) but you can not say it is a stellar performer with out adding "for the price" after it. There are alot of bugs (some have been fixed) and they do release the fixes more often than ACAD but they leave them unfixed longer than ACAD and they are more obvious and never should have passed beta test. ACAD never had so many or as serious bugs (with the exception of R13 that most of us skipped) and my company, with 12 licences, has lost days of combined work just from ICADs UNDO bug (now appearently fixed, thank you). And I agree that "what do you expect for $200?" is no excuse. I expect it to work within the marketed parameters. I expect them to fix EVERY know, repeatable bug. I expect this to take priority over inhansments of little value to existing customers (But Im engineering not marketing).
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Some of the complaints in this conversation thread stated.... it is unfair to be charged for upgrades..... that is rediculous....every softwear manufacturer in the world charges for upgrades.... if you want all the functions of Acad then go pay the $3000 to buy it!!My electrical engineering consulting company has 21 licenses of Bricsnet IC ... 3 network licenses of Acad and 1 licenses of Mirostation...we do only 2-D engineering drafting for building electrical systems and use the right tool required for the job at hand!IC is our main production 2D CAD software for the past 4 years starting back with IC-98. We have customized IC with over 8000 lines of Lisp programs developed in house and from helpfull hints from this WEB site and Cadopia.At times conditions stilll arise that require the horsepower of Acad or Microstation, mainly for converting troubelsome files we receive from our 200 Architect clients who do not know how to properly follow CAD file sharing standards. The $95 per license yearly support fee is a bargin and we will be renewing our support for all 21 of our IC licenses. If we had used 21 licenses of Acad over the past 4 years it would have cost us over $75,000 in purchase costs and upgrade fees!!! Compare this with approximately $9000 in costs for IC over the same period!!!
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I can also agree with Jeffson that paying for "upgrades" is fair and the price is not at all unreasonable. The concern is not somuch paying for enhancements as much as it is bug fixes. Ford cant say "our new SUV's tires dont blow up and cause roll overs any more - its an UPGRADE! give us money." they fix it because it is a flaw in the product as as such is their responsibilty to fix and not ask us to just buy the new model.
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The softwear industries works much differently then the auto industry....We all continue to blindly pay MS monopoly for newer and newer versions of bug riiden softwear full of security holes! Mainly because their monopoly and the product liability laws are so much different for softwear compared to automobiles, especially in the US.Fortunately Acad monpoly in the CAD market is challenged by at least a dozen major CAD products....but we think for our uses IC provides the best competitive file level compatibility.As an aside.....we are currently experimenting with running IC on Win-XP Pro, for our new experimental protype P4-2.2Ghz CPU MSI 6547E-010 motherboard clone CAD workstaion with 512MB of DDR-333 memory and Nvidia Quadro-550 64Mb AGP4X video card. So far it is much more stable...far fewer lockups and crashes and very much faster then with our current standard 1Ghz P3 workstations that use a 3D Oxygen VX1 AGP4X 32Mb video card with Win-98 SE. In fact, we project less then a 180 day pay back of the $1300 cost(including Win-XP Pro license) of the P4 experimental prototype computer, do to increased CAD operator productivity. We are reusing our existing 21" CAD monitors!!!
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Guys, you don´t caught the "spirit". I´m talking about bugfixes, patchs, workaround and whatever. You talk about MS monopoly, programs full of bugs and lacks, but they still giving support for patchs and we aren´t charged for that...I saw the "upgrade" and for my eyes and necessities the new features are just a bunch - a smoke curtain for the corrections in the software (and I still repeating are basic problems, compromissing the functionality of it - come on: snap imprecision in plot command and undo are inaceptable. Wait more a year and you will see a new charged "upgrade". I stop mine for that 3.1 version, that banish the basic bugs...Jaime
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My livelyhood has depended upon ICAD for the last 4 years. The product has continued to improve. The performance problems often occurred when running on Win98, but with NT4.0(SP6) and XP the performance has been exceptional. The bugs I have found have not been significant enough to ever consider changing product.
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Maybe some people think the bugs arn's so bad (I had an uncle who said of the roaches running unchecked in his house "They dont eat much.") but others do. BricksCAD and the others dont seem to think they are that important either (better to capture that big Asian market I guess) but they can at least add to the product description "The stretch command doesnt work right, DTEXT doesnt edit right, Polylines can be a nightmare and dont even bring up MTEXT, But hey, what do you want for $200"
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You know folks, words mean something, Upgrade means just that, an improvement to an existing product or service. This means additions that weren't there originally but were added to accomplish some new task or achieve some new goal. Let's forget for the sake of this discussion the word permanent as far as licensing goes. Now if one looks at the features list of version 3.2.0001 and compares the New Features to the Bugs fixed the fixes far outweigh the new features. Now if we retrace the history here 3.2.0001 fixes bugs in 3.1.0009 which fixes bugs in 3.1.0007 etc.,etc. going back to 2.2.0027, Now as I recall Acad fixed bugs with patches for free while adding enhancements to a particular release as they went along until those additions called for a whole new release. It's obvious that BricsCad wants to collect twice for what it should have provided to begin with. I have version 3.1.0009 give us a patch for the bugs in it and let us decide if we want to pay another $95.00.00 for the 'Enhancements'.
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Posit a question: Given there is no human perfection only the striving for an undifined goal of perfection, there can never be perfect software. Therefor, in a free market economy, do we have the right to expect free bug fixes and free upgrades in perpetuity for a software product?If the answer is yes, then at some point the cost to the software company of this free largess in striving for perfection, will be financial bankrupcy...no income = no company! The first rule for a free market company is to make a profit. Profit allows the company's continued existance, retention of it's employees by paying wages and servicing of it's customers with product and product enhancements. In this equation there is no room for conituous forever FREE or never ending cost, to obtain unachievable perfection.At the present development stage of IC it seems to me, that the emphasis of reducing bugs is more important then increasing useability. But, also realizing that a profit is necessary to survive, charging a very reasonable $95 per year for bug fixes and upgrades is less oblectionable then losing the avaialability of IC completely, do to banckrupcy.
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