POLL : Zoom changes mark drawing as "changed"
With Bricsys' permission I have initiated a poll to gauge user opinion on a small convenience issue regarding when drawings are marked as "changed".
I often use Bricscad simply as a viewer to confirm some details on multiple project drawings long after the drawings are fixed and no longer to be changed. This involves opening the drawing(s), zooming in to the area of interest and then closing the drawing. Currently Bricscad treats the change in zoom as a change to the drawing so that when the drawing is closed the user is prompted to save. Personally I find this an irritation and would prefer that just changing a zoom on any view should not cause the drawing to be marked as "changed". Note that I am not suggesting that the zoom value should not be saved as part of the drawing file, just that changing the zoom value alone should not mark the drawing as "changed", thus avoiding the irritation described above.
Would those with a preference either way please add your opionion to this thread so that Bricsys might consider whether to change the current program behaviour.
Jamie Fraser
Comments
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I agree changing the zoom only should not flag a drawing as changed, provided if the zoom was the only thing changed the editor would still save the drawing with the new zoom state without needing to do a saveas.
My opinion on this not not strong either way.
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I agree that would be better. It's a bit of a nuisance to have to answer "no" to a Save prompt after only viewing a file, without changing the geometry. And especially when viewing a lot of files.
The protocol Jamie proposes would be the same as Sketchup uses:
1. A manual Save always works, even if the only change was a change of view.
2. There's a pop-up Save prompt on closing only if an entity has been changed since the last manual Save.
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It's often a nuiscance, but sometimes I want to save that new zoom and might have forgotten before closing.
Would not want it assumed I want to save the new zoom and the time waste for mostly unwanted saves without approval would be a big pain.
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John, could you clarify your comment please. Note that the prompt to save would only be omitted if the ONLY change since opening or last saving the drawing was a change to the zoom setting. There would be no unsolicited saves which is why I am requesting clarification of your response.
Thanks
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+1 for not saving zoom changes. It has always been an annoyance for me that autocad includes zoom and pan updates in the undo list as well. Having said that I understand that there are users who find this functionality invaluable. Maybe if there is a split decision it could become a registry switch to keep both sides happy?
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Jamie, I was voting on Greg's suggestion - "the editor would still save the drawing with the new zoom state without needing to do a saveas" - I don't think that would be good.
On thinking about it a little longer, although the current behaviour is a pain more often than not, I would rather retain the reminder to save on exit even if zoom was the only change.
I used to use something like Alt+Q to quit without a save or prompt, defined in the pgp file and/or using a script. A long time since I used it, perhaps it's still a better way - I had to make a decision to use the key sequence, but it saved the extra mouse click or "N" from the keyboard.
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I think you should be prompted to save, as zooming does modify the database
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That reminds me of another issue which has been discussed here - speed of saving.
Not being any sort of programmer, I'm not sure how Daniel's point would affect some future implementation of Acad's "partial save", but that function used to do funny things with a file's date stamp. It can get messy trying to work out when or at what stage a file was last saved, the last zoom is sometimes a hint.
Not sure either if a database modified by a zoom matters, but I would like to see any efforts on or around saving directed wholly at the issue of save speed.
I also have a vague apprehension this zoom/save issue could actually add to the time it took for a faster save to appear.
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Hi there... just to clarify my comment. I was not speaking about any "auto-save" simply that is the user asked for a save when the zoom was the only chane it would infact be saved without needing to perform a saveas. In my mind a saveas would involve another dialog to set the filename.
Regards.
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Count me in on NOT saving changes regarding zooming.
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One more vote for Not setting the change flag for just zooming.
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me too, don't prompt to save when it's just zooms or list or measures, etc.
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What about the resquest to save "Drawing1" which has no reason to ask and is not even consistent lately (sometimes it asks, smetimes not)? - I could do without that.
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Another vote for NOT considering a zoom as a change.
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Good point, John. There shouldn't be a pop-up prompt offering to save Drawing1 if nothing was drawn in it.
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Add my vote to not setting the "Change" flag just for a zoom. It's annoying to have to answer the popup dialog.
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Hi,
This thread seems to have gathered as many responses as it is going to. Would Bricsys offer a view on whether there is enough support for my suggestion to make it into a future release?
Regards
Jamie
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I agree!
And UNDO should also ignore zoom, pan and orbit if you like.
Take a look at Rhino.
Don't copy Autodesk blindly :-)
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I second that, Ragnar. The UNDO command, like the pop-up Save prompt, should only apply to changes in the geometry. Sketchup works that way, too, to my great relief.
I'm sure there's a fear of doing anything differently than AC, due to the mindset of its user base. I personally feel that BC's Settings dialog is much better than what was in the last version of AC I saw, but I know many or most people objected to it initially just because it's different. There's a lot of room for improvement if one can get past that kind of prejudice.
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Just bumping this thread in the hope of a response from Bricsys.
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Well allright, of course we have been listening.
FYI, keeping view operations out of the undo queue has been my first wish ever after using a dwg editor, so believe me when I say I don't need convincing... sad truth is that many years later now we still don't see a way to do this in an acceptable way.
BUT we had very much hoped to have a small present ready for you all with the V10 release. Here's a hint: open the Settings dialog and key in DBMOD in the search field.
The first search hit will be the DBMOD system variable, which holds 5 flags, indicating if modifications were applied to 1. the object database 2. variables stored in the database 3. the app window 4. the view 5. a field.
The next search hit for DBMOD will reveal a new setting: 'Ignore all but first bit of DBMOD for Autosave' . In other words, _only_ execute an Autosave if the object database has been modified, not if e.g. only the view or the size of the application window were modified.
The next search hit for DBMOD will reveal another new setting: 'Ignore all but first bit of DBMOD for Close'. In other words, upon close, only prompt for saving if the object database has been modified.
Errr, hold your horses. Unfortunately we could not announce this new feature because we discovered that DBMOD was not behaving properly, and we were too close to release to apply a fix and test it. But it's coming, and we're really close now.
Best regards!
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Hans,
Further evidence (if any were needed) of excellent responsiveness to user opinions. This is what sets Bricsys apart from the many faceless application development companies out there. Keep up the good work and I will look forward to the present when it is ready.
Regards
Jamie
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The next update of V10 will have a fix for DBMOD changes on zooming. DBMOD flag 1 will no longer be set on zoom, flag 16 will be set in its stead. DBMOD is still set too soon when xrefs are present though.
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I really like the sound of this...
Thank you!
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Great!
(btw, How do I sort this list so that the latest reply is on top)
I think the best solution is an option to include and exclude commands like Zoom, Pan, Orbit, and also UNDO(!) from the the command history list.
One thing is that Open + Zoom + Close then is excecuted with no question about Save.
Another thing is that a command, for example, Rotate + Undo + Enter then will repeat your command, not another Undo.
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