Features scheduled for V12 life cycle
Features scheduled for V12 life cycle
- Tool Palettes
- Parallelization (Multi-Core support)
- Multiline and Multiline styles
- Layer filters
- Plot to file print option
- Improved PDF export
- Array command dialog
- Dimlinear: ‘zero’ extension lines
- Import WMF
- Sheet sets
- Publish command
Comments
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Sounds impressive! I'm looking forward to several of these...
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Amen to the Array command - looking forward to the rest too.
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So . . . I assume there will never be full implementation of Dynamic Blocks? A response from Bricsys, please?
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Creating a dynamic block editor + test environment + implementing all related/required commands and settings is a task with a size expressed in man-years. That does not mean that we will not implement it, but it simply is unlikely that this could be achieved during the V12 life cycle.
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Is there any restriction to which version of dwg you can save a model and still have the 3d fully editable with the V12 Quad?
don't get me wrong, i'm loving it(trial), but it just seems too good to be true.
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From my perspective, dynamic blocks need only to be supported as far as compatibility is concerned - which means that the variant that was chosen when the drawing was saved has to display correctly (I think this has already been achieved).
Putting more energy into the re-implementation of a feature that is at the same time complicated and rather limited is IMO just a waste of resources. It would rather make sense to go for a full implementation of parametrics via a simple yet powerful API (having the possibility to define objects in scripts, never understood why Autodesk didn't leverage LISP for that purpose).
Of course, compatibility would need to be kept here, too - again only meaning that the saved variant would need to display correctly in ACAD as a block.
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Sounds good to me, how about an Mleader command?
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Thank you for, Hans, for the Dynamic Block response. It's nice to know. Although we have the capability to manipulate dynamic blocks, unfortunately we will never be able to create or alter them without AutoCad.
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@Steven: there seems to be a misunderstanding. I did not say we will never implement it, only that it is unlikely we can complete it in the coming 12 months.
@Keith: please try the following: save some drawing containing 3d solids to Autocad 2000 dwg (aka R15 ) format. Close your Bricscad session, restart, and load the R15 drawing: editing of the solids using the Quad will work fine. The direct modeling engine, driven by the Quad, does not need any additional information to be stored along with the solids in order to be able to edit them, instead it analyses solids on the fly.
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Quote (orig. from Sander Scheiris): "Parallelization (Multi-Core support)"
Thats good, as long as it speeds up the performance of Bricscad. - Continuing that thought: What about 64-bit support or a super-awesome Bricscad-unique ^^ graphics-card support ;-) (I don't know exactly how this can be specified further but Acad seems to have it).
I am saying this because one of my first tests on Bricscad showed that with large 3D-drawings (with lots of 3D-solids inside it, some complex some not) it still lags behind Autocad terribly as far as performance is concerned. Even Autocad sometimes slows down but in Bricscad it seems not possible to realistically work on such drawings.
Therefore I think performance should be the first thing to work on. Most other things can be developed by 3D-party developers or by one self as long as one knows how to program, but performance can only be done by Bricsys itself.
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I would second Stephan's remarks, except perhaps as far as parallelization is concerned:
If this means to put more cores to work just to achieve what other software does with a single one, I'm not particularly enthusiastic...
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It is of equally important Value NOT ONLY to present a list of
"Features scheduled for V12 life cycle" meaning Features at the User Level
BUT "Developer/API Features scheduled for V12 life cycle" AS WELL
which have an immediate, important impact on everyday user's work.
e.g. BREP subentity access via subentity paths(Faces, Edges) of 3D Solids,
LOFT and SWEEP commands using the .NET API etc
Don't get me wrong and say ..."this is something for the developer site"
In house developers and every day users like me are programming on the
fly as the need arises and must know what is possible and what is scheduled
and coming within V12 life cycle ?
The best ideas that add User-Functionality-Value come from User's needs
and not from the developer's needs !
My question now
What is scheduled for the .NET API within V12 life cycle ?
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I think the question is rather: what is scheduled for .NET in future versions of Bricscad?
IMHO, .NET does not fit multi-platform software very well - after all, does AutoCAD for Mac offer this ?
But there is another thing coming to my mind when I read about these features announced for V12:
While Bricscad up to now had to be regarded mainly as a 2d-cad system, this is bound to change with V12, and I'm looking forward to this.
Still, the vast majority of users (I bet) use Bricscad in a 2d-workflow, and will very likely continue to do so - at least this is true for the AEC-world that I'm familiar with.Also with the features mentioned above, I think there is not much about V12 that will make 'Classic' users want to upgrade.
What I would love to see instead of additional AutoCAD features (some of questionable use) is a general usability overhaul, similar to what the dm* commands did for 3d: while you can now e.g. apply a fillet with realtime feedback to solid edges, the 2d fillet command works as unintuitive as always, and this is true for most editing commands - I think this is beginning to look a little outdated.The progress concerning hatches is certainly warmly welcomed, but there is quite some way ahead until you could call this a really satisfying solution...
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Regarding the 2D vs 3D features and capability, as a sometimes CAD user (most times an embedded firmware geek but we're a very small shop), depending on the task I can find it much more productive to generate an accurate 3D model and then produce the various end-state views from that model. And once the model has been built, it can be mated with other pieces of, for example, an electronics enclosure to check for things like accessibility.
The X-Solids hardware library and QuickDraw tool introduced in V11 have helped with this tremendously.
Again, CAD isn't something that I routinely do and this may not be the best workflow method for someone who can easily "think in iso-planes" but I'm a happy customer.
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I'm a typical V11'Classic user - meaning - 2D user. Let's review roadmap suggested by Sander Scheiris:
1) Tool Pallettes - useful for 2D user, especially DESIGN CENTER;) - reason to upgrade.
2) Multi core support - useful. reason to upgrade.
3) Multiline with styles - typically for 2d users, I think, reason to upgrade
4) Layer filters - this one would be sufficient for me to upgrage, I need this like hell:) (my topic about layer filters here: https://forum.bricsys.com/discussion/15247&saved=true)
5) Plot to file - a must-have for everybody, antoher small reason to upgrade
6) Improved PDF export - PDF echange is now like new standard, it's obvious it has to be done perfect, small reason to upgrade
7) Array command dialog - I used to live wiyhout this
, but it's for 2D users... Small reason to upgrade.8) Zero extension lines in dimensions: Yes, small reason to upgrade for 2D users...
9) Importf WMF - yes, for maps and so on - small reaason to upgrade.
10) Sheet sets - The second one that would be sufficient itself for upgrading, I need this like hell - I work in big architecture office with internal standards...
11) Publish command - YES YES YES The third one worth to upgrade for itself.
12) Transparent hatches - ok, I added it by myself
but... Sanders, what's your reaction about transparent hatches in V12?I see all proposed changes concerns typical V11 Classic 2D users. I dont see any changes that would concern only 3D - could you explain what you meant?
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Jacek,
I think the general question is if you want an AutoCAD clone or a dwg-compatible program that nevertheless follows its own ideas.
For my part , since I regard most of what Autodesk implemented in Acad during the last decade as flawed, I would vote for the latter - and the recent developments in the 3d part of Bricscad seem to hint into this direction.
IMHO. everything that is not directly linked to file format or API compatibility should be reviewed and - if possible - amended.
So, my personal answers to your points would be like this:
1) Tool palettes: Bricscad did not follow Acad's GUI so far, and I'm perfectly happy with this
2) Multi core support: useful for 3d, or any situation where lengthy computation is required. As to 'normal' 2d-work, it would have to be analyzed which commands can be sped up, and if these actually represent a bottleneck. Careful code optimization should always come first.
3) Multilines: didn't check how this works in recent Acad versions - when it was introduced, it was a fine example of a feature so flawed it was virtually useless...
4) Layer filters: the filter box in V11 was all I need (proper layer naming conventions are a must anyway).
5) Plot to file: rather a bugfix than a feature
6) pdf export: I don't accept this as a feature for V12 - it was announced for V11 and should have been made 100% functional there.
7) Array dialog: small goodie, and another example for the uncoherent development from Autodesk's side (should be part of a comprehensive modifier stack)
8) 'zero' extension lines: ??? - sounds like a bug fix to me?
9) wmf import: I thought this was a dying format (and irrelevant for multi platform software)
10,11) sheet sets and publishing: no need here to follow Autodesk's path - drawing management functions are needed, but should seamlessly integrate with Bricscad's GUI
12) transparent hatches: ??? wasn't in the roadmap, I think. (The way Autodesk chose to implement hatches is one of the things I disliked strongest - but there of course is the compatibility issue that means we'll probably get stuck with this)
I know this is highly personal and may sound controversial, but open discussion is what I miss a bit in these forums...
In order not to sound too negative: I am generally very satisfied with what Bricscad offers, it has proven a reliable work horse for me (and I'm especially grateful that it allowed me not to boot my windows partition for months).
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I'm in agreement that Brics needs to pave it's own path and not be hindered by Adesk. I like that they're upgrading the array command but in the future it would be great to add a "extrude to surface or solid" type command for the 3D toolset. With all the new tools added to V12 I've been able to model a whole pressure vessel in Brics for the first time but if they add extrude command mentioned I can get it done twice as fast. If they can get this close to like say "spaceclaim" or thereabouts in terms of 3D use we won't need any other apps.
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Hi there!Knut, you're absolutely right - BC should continue its own way - it's often much better than autodesk's one:) For example, I love BC's options dialog with this instant search combo and a form of tree - awesome! So, let me defend a little with the V12 lifecycle roadmap:1) I agree and it's not the GUI what is teasing me -rather the functionality of something called the design center - place to manage standards between two or more drawings - copy dimstyles, textstyles, blocks, layers, layer-filters (acad does not have this one;) Yor're right about not following the acad path.2) multi-core - i'm not a programmer but I feel that 10MB drawing with another 10 to 30 xrefed drawings 1MB each - requires a "long computation"... It's not so rare to cope with thedrawings of this complexity in architecture...3) Personally I dont use multilines but I'm sure they are used rather by 2D users than 3D... Thats not I will die for;)4) Layer filters are much more than layer filtering textbox... Layer filters you can define and use as "layer-containers" - naming standard is the goodhabit anyway, but not crucial with layer filters that can contain more definitions inside and can be more complex... For example , you can easily define the layer filter that shows only revisions layers that are not printable. Personally I would die for this one;)5) PLot to file - bugfix, ok, I agree,6) pdf export - ok I agree, nevertheless it is important and should be done better than others:)7)completely agree - you're absolutely right!8) ok, agree:)9) I have always problem with this kind of files... Of course it's dying format, it's not crucial to have this option...10and11) you're right - drawing management functions... but compatible with *.dst autodesk files12) yes, transparency in hatches wasn't there - Mr Sander, is it possible to add this one?Knut,thanks for your feedback, regards, jm.0
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I think is good have own path and not only blindly follow AutoCAD as it doing others and in this case I think is name "clone" right (others)...
I think Bricsys do it good - is same, but still different. But still is situation, when I must still use (rarely, but time to time still) old AC 2009LT...
- Tool Palettes: When it will, it will...
- Parallelization (Multi-Core support): These processors are not rarelytoday, why not use it...
- Multiline and Multiline styles: 3x YES! For me is still (especially when draw machine room) quicker draw it 2D with multilines when it draw only with (poly)lines or draw it 3D. We use it to draw ducts, pipes, flex....
- Layer filters: Absolutely must have feature! When you have coordination drawing, is this only way how you can't lost here...
- Plot to file print option: For me is this feature interesting, because it's better then PDF....
- Improved PDF export: Hm... I'm using before PDFCreator and now I buy PDF-XChange PRO and use printer from this package. If this export produced small and fast PDF, I'm start using it...
- Array command dialog: I'm not using it often, but yes, dialog is more clearly...
- Dimlinear: ‘zero’ extension lines: Im'm not sure what is that...
- Import WMF: I'm never must use that, but... when it will, it will...
- Sheet sets: BC not support and for that I'm not use it, but when will be it available...
- Publish command: ABSOLUTELY YES! AND PLEASE ADD MULTISELECTION FOR LAYOUTS TABS! When is in DWG i.e. 30 tabs, I must delete it one by one if I need do that. And when I need plot it, again I must do it one by one, 30x do same, as monkey...0 -
@ Jacek
Great to hear I'm not alone with my views... I think it is wrong to assume that users just want a cheaper AutoCAD - in fact, many will prefer something less bulky.
Maybe you're right concerning layer filters - I'm quite biased here, after very negative experience when Autodesk introduced this (in r14?): I did projects when each and every drawing we received from other project participants contained more than 1 MB of layer filters... this thing spread like a virus. I had written my own solution to deal with large numbers of layers and ignored this feature - but I'll look into it again once Bricscad has it.
As to multi core support: sure, it will be the norm soon. But there are situations where it is obvious that there can be massive gains through parallelization, and others where it is less obvious. Maybe regeneration of multiple xrefs could really be accelerated... I'm confident Bricsys will look into this.
@ Juraj
Are the flex ducts on your right image multilines? Then I would like to have them, too. I just remember things like mlines couldn't contain arcs, inability to redefine styles etc...
And yes, selecting multiple layout tabs for printing is something nearly all users would expect to work.0 -
My two cents, until recently (6 months ago) I was a 100% Autocad user...Tool pallets - I loath them, they just get in the way, and in Autocad they are painful to manage. I can see their benefit, but I don't use too many blocks; recently I have been using an old fashion slide menu with my current employer, and I must say this is a lot nicer than the tool pallets - and it is already supported...Parallelization - I think this one is simple, if it improves the 'velocity' of the program, do it...Multi-lines - In my 12 years of CAD drafting, I think I have used this once. But from Juraj's post, when setup, it looks rather impressive - I'd love to see more.Layer filters - Don't really use this feature, but the few times that I have, it is handyPlot to file - Haven't used this in years, what does a person use this for these days, CAM?PDF Export - Deep six this one, a PDF printer is a much better option - the wheel is being reinvented here, if you want one button PDF, make a lisp with the -plot command...Array Dialog - This would be great, I use this command daily, a purge dialog would be awesome too...WMF - I have no idea what this is, I'm off to Google...Sheet Sets - I am completely in the dark on this one...Publish - A huge time saver and greatly missed in Bricscad.At the end of the day, I think that Bricscad should maintain computability with Autocad files, but aim to move away from being a clone. One of the worst things that Autodesk did was implement the ribbon tool bar - if it isn't broken don't fix it; standard tool bars have worked great since the dawn of the CAD era...The parametric stuff is really cool, can't wait to see where Bricscad takes us in the future...Looking back on this post, there are a lot of tools that I really don't use, time to delve deeper into the program! Happy clicking!0
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@Knut: In BC it provide Torsten's BcadTools and command is MLSTYLE. Flex is ZIGZAG+DASHDOT+ZIGZAG. "ARC" is also possible, if you "produced by clicking". For small dimensions tubes, arc need only start-middle-end, for big arc you need 5 points. It's about how you want be precise (if it's detail or you print it 1:50).
arc.png0 -
Hello Everyone,
After reading all posts until now, I must jump in as well.
Well, each user has his own perspective of what is important and what is not. It all depends on what you use most frequently on a daily basis.
I will not repeat the features that are already discussed but add a few which I have been asked a lot about - from users in India.
1. The ability to do an UNDO from within a HATCH command. Right now, there isn't an option. If you perform 10 hatches in a HATCH loop, and make a mistake on the 11th one, there is no way you can undo only the 11th one, you have to undo all of them and start over.
2. Similarly, the ability to do an undo from within the LAYON, LAYOFF as well as OFFSET command loops.
I would REALLY like to see these simple features in Bricscad. I have already files SR on this.
3. The equivalent of the ALIGNSPACE Express Tools command.
4. The ability to copy a bunch of cells from Excel and do a Paste Special in Bricscad and have them appear as a Bricscad table object rather than a dumb OLE object.
I would appreciate a poll on these 4 features to ask how many of you also want these items in Bricscad.
Regards
Rakesh Rao
http://rakeshrao.typepad.com0 -
@ Juraj
Well, I see... your arcs are in fact a work around the old restriction that still applies... is it the same for MLSTYLES (can you edit a used style?)
I can't use Bcadtools (since I am on Linux) and would have to wait for Bricsys to implement this; but unless Autodesk decides to give mlines a little love, Bricsys will not be able to come up with a fully satisfying yet compatible solution, so in the end I might stick to my initial reservations...
@Rakesh
As to the first 3 features, I would vote for them - this is what I meant with:
'What I would love to see instead of additional AutoCAD features (some of questionable use) is a general usability overhaul'
As to the 4th feature (copypaste from Excel), I would rather vote against: giving any third-party applications special treatment does not make sense in my view (what about openoffice? where would you stop?)
One command that I would love to see replaced (by several others) is PEDIT - too deeply nested, and looking completely outdated to me.
Best,
Knut0 -
@Knut : Abolsutely, I would also vote strongly for improving the general usability from the 2D user point of view, while also appreciate the new stuff being developed for 3d and modelling.
Yet another requested command:
- DIMBREAK command -> useful while dealing with cluttered dimensions.
But, copy cells from Excel - I would still rate that very important as I see CAD users wanting to bring in sections of Excel data all the time and they have to struggle with it in Bricscad. As for Open Office, if that can be supported as well, why not? In India, though, I have seen more of Excel.
- rakesh rao
- www.coordsys.com0 -
Rakesh,
I'm not a programmer, but I bet that copypasting anything but ASCII text will be quite platform dependent, and if Bricscad (as announced) will run on all major three platforms shortly, this little feature actually might create considerable work...
...or not:
when I copypaste a cell range from openoffice (on Linux) and paste it into a text editor, it comes in with the cells separated by tabs and the rows terminated by newline. When I copy this into a Bricscad table, however, it either ends up all in one cell, or I get a 'Unable to read clipboard data' error.
So maybe all that would be needed is Bricsad to interpret tabs and newline characters correctly?0 -
When can we expect scaled annotations and publish command?0
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@Knut: Yes, with BcadTools, you can change styles of MLINES which is currently used, but as I remeber well, it not work natively in AutoCAD. My last was 2009 LT and 2006 ADT. If it's yet possible, I'm not sure. I'm doubt about it.0
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VIEWPORT LAYER SETTING: I'm not using it, because BC not support it, but in AutoCad is possible not only freezing layer in viewport, but also is possible change color, line type and line width. It's very usefull, if you make coordination plan with other trades.0
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@Rakesh, each of your four are features / enhancements I would like to see also. The copy from spreadsheet / paste as table entity would be nice but I would want this to work with data from OpenOffice / LibreOffice
@Juraj: I definitely would love to have viewport layer property overrides.
Ability to select, delete and plot multiple layouts... Yes indeed!0
