file sizes V12 to V13

Stefan Krznar
Stefan Krznar
in Other
If I file a storable in Bricscad Pro V12 with DWG 2000, this file is only 80KB in size.
If the same file without editing open in V13 Pro 32 bit and saved back to DWG 2000
then this file is 300 KB groß.Wird suddenly without editing the same file then open V13 Pro 64bit
and then stored under DWG 2000, this file is even greater, incredible 400 KB, ie 5 times larger.
Does anyone have a solution or a bug

Comments

  • Roy Klein Gebbinck
    Roy Klein Gebbinck
    Two variables can influence this:
    ISAVEPERCENT
    SAVEROUNDTRIP

    My guess is that the ISAVEPERCENT variable is not respected in V13 because there seems to be a lot of 'air' in the V13 files.
  • Knut Hohenberg
    Knut Hohenberg
    As Roy already pointed out (faster than me), you need to check that a few variables have the same value to make sure file size comparisons give a reasonable result:

    RASTERPREVIEW (the size increase you reported is quite typical for an embedded preview image)
    ISAVEPERCENT (must be 0, otherwise a varying amount of data might have been appended to the file)
    INDEXCTL (should be 0 unless you want to use the file as xref)

    and, less likely, some other settings that you find in the 'Open and Save' section of the settings, like proxy graphics.
  • Stefan Krznar
    Stefan Krznar
    thanks for the Antwort.Auch these settings bring nichts.Die drawings are always adjusted before the store and have no graphics in the background, so datein clean, but very large.In V12 is all great.
  • Stefan Krznar
    Stefan Krznar
    So back to version V12
  • Alexander Van Heuverzwyn
    Alexander Van Heuverzwyn
    RASTERPREVIEW and THUMBSIZE control the presence and size of a bitmap in the saved drawing. We use BMP format for the th;umbnails. That means the stored thumbnail will have the same size for a empty drawing as for a very heavy drawing.

    Currently the default value of THUMBSIZE is 3, which  for the BMP format is a tad high, so some people might prefer to reduce THUMBSIZE to 2 or 1.

  • Roy Klein Gebbinck
    Roy Klein Gebbinck
    Thank you Alexander. So the big thumbnail explains all the zero bytes ('air') in the V13 file.

    FWIW: To get comparable files sizes for SaveAS AC 2000 in V12 and V13:

    V12:
    INDEXCTL = 0
    ISAVEPERCENT = 50
    RASTERPREVIEW = ON
    SAVEROUNDTRIP = OFF

    V13:
    INDEXCTL = 0
    ISAVEPERCENT = 50
    RASTERPREVIEW = ON
    SAVEROUNDTRIP = OFF
    THUMBSIZE = 128X128

  • Knut Hohenberg
    Knut Hohenberg
    Aah, I assumed there was a variable to control the preview size, but just couldn't find it...
    Anyway, I think these vars are too hard to find - RASTERPREVIEW and THUMBSIZE should IMO be listed right next to each other in the 'Open and save' section of the settings - on the current linux version (13.1.19), RASTERPREVIEW is hidden between completely unrelated settings in the 'User preferences' section, and THUMBSIZE seems not to be available at all...
  • Stefan Krznar
    Stefan Krznar
    Hi, thanks for the many Antworten.Supportanfrage is gestellt.Es can not well be that everything is OK in the V7, V8, V9, V10, V11, with no settings in the system
    to machen.Alles a bit complicated this very Einstellungen.Das I was ordered to
    never do.
  • Knut Hohenberg
    Knut Hohenberg
    Ok, der Einfachheit halber mal auf Deutsch:
    Dass das alles so kompliziert ist, geht auf Autodesks Konto, aber Bricsys könnte sich bemühen, die Einstellungen besser zu strukturieren und zu dokumentieren...
  • Stefan Krznar
    Stefan Krznar
    Nur merkwürdig ist , das alle Versionen davor nur mit der Grundeinstellung beim installieren einwandfrei abgespeichert haben.Aber das 5-fache an Dateigröße ist
    einfach nicht akzeptabel.Aber wieso geht das Verhalten auf Autodesks Konto ? Autodesk gab es auch schon als V8,V9,V10,V11,V12 herrauskamen.
    Ich persönlich habe den Eindruck,das Bricscad V13 sehr viele Updates gegenüber den anderen Bricscadversionen hat und vieles davon verschlimbestert wird.
    Dauert ja nicht mehr lange,dann kommt schon die V14 und die V13 war bislang für mich selten zu gebrauchen.Vieleicht ist Bricscad auch schon zu überladen mit Funktionen,daher ist die Fehlerquote bei jedem Update eventuell höher.Ich jedenfalls habe die V13 vom Rechner entfernt,die V12 wieder rauf und alles läuft wie es soll.Ich möchte doch doch nur meine Arbeit erledigen mehr nicht.
  • Knut Hohenberg
    Knut Hohenberg
    Auf Autodesks Konto deshalb, weil die seit etlichen Jahren niemals etwas an AutoCAD korrigieren, sondern immer nur weiter dranbasteln, was zu diesem Wildwuchs an Variablen geführt hat. Bricsys kann da nicht viel ausrichten, da dwg-Kompatibilität nun mal eine Grundlage ihres Geschäftsmodells ist.
    Ob die Zunahme der Dateigröße durch die - soweit ich begriffen habe - höhere Auflösung des Vorschaubildes auch dem Vorbild von neueren AutoCAD-Versionen folgt, entzieht sich allerdings meiner Kenntnis. Eine 5-fach größere Datei resultiert dabei aber nur im Falle von sehr kleinen Zeichnungen (das Vorschaubild hat eine konstante Größe).
    Die generelle Kritik an der Release-Politik von Bricsys teile ich weitgehend. Es ist für professionelle Nutzer unbefriedigend, dass für neue Funktionen (die - zumindest im 2d-Bereich -  kaum jemand braucht) Instabilitäten bei den Grundfunktionen in Kauf genommen werden müssen. Aber Detailpflege lässt sich halt schwer vermarkten...
  • Stefan Krznar
    Stefan Krznar
    Danke für die Antwort.Nun bin ich zur Version V12 Pro zurückgekehrt und lasse die V13 Pro erstmal in der Schublade reifen.Auf die nächste Version werde ich wohl
    erstmal nicht updaten und gaaaanz lange abwarten.Das stimmt,für professionelle Anwender die damit Ihre Brötchen verdienen müssen ist das sehr mühsam die
    updaterei, dann geht das mal wieder nicht,dann das usw.Und das nur,weil Funktionen eingebracht werden,die kein Mensch in 2D benötigt.Waren das noch Zeiten,als die V8 rauskam,stabil gelaufen,alle Grundfunktionen waren da und gut war.Wenn da Bricscad nicht aufpasst,dann überladen Sie Bricscad wie Autocad auch überladen ist.
  • John Gaunt
    John Gaunt

    Thank you Alexander. So the big thumbnail explains all the zero bytes ('air') in the V13 file.

    FWIW: To get comparable files sizes for SaveAS AC 2000 in V12 and V13:

    V12:
    INDEXCTL = 0
    ISAVEPERCENT = 50
    RASTERPREVIEW = ON
    SAVEROUNDTRIP = OFF

    V13:
    INDEXCTL = 0
    ISAVEPERCENT = 50
    RASTERPREVIEW = ON
    SAVEROUNDTRIP = OFF
    THUMBSIZE = 128X128


    I just discovered what a difference Thumbsize makes to size of file and speed of saving, opening and perhaps other operations.

    It seems counter intuitive that as Thumbsize is set smaller, dwg preview quality appears better - wondering how preview could improve is what started me searching.

  • Roy Klein Gebbinck
    Roy Klein Gebbinck
    @ John:
    The problem with a dwg preview is that many elements have a width of 1 pixel.
    Showing a preview saved with a tumbsize of 128x128 in a window that is 512x512 is problematic (1 pixel fills 16 pixels).
    But so is showing a 512x512 preview in a 128x128 window (16 pixels fill 1 pixel).

  • John Gaunt
    John Gaunt

    Hi Roy, does that mean some files will preview well at 512x512?

    Apart from being normally large area small scale (like A1 1=50), my files and system would be very typical.

    A default of 128x128, or "1", would seem much more appropriate from where I sit.

    Intellicad originally had a small collection of the variables which might affect a file which was 'slowing down', as a menu item.

    Called 'Performance' or something, Thumbsize would be a prime candidate to add under such a heading since its existence and influence beyond its purpose aren't obvious.

  • Roy Klein Gebbinck
    Roy Klein Gebbinck
    Bricsys obviously went overboard when they decided to use 512x512 as the default thumbsize. If you work with xrefs a large thumbsize can have advantages, but otherwise it just bloats the dwg file.
    The point I was trying to make in my previous post is that a preview will look best if it is displayed in a size that approximates the size in which it was saved. But a lot depends on the algorithm used to recalculate the image as the attached image demonstrates. The image is a screen shot of the Xref Panel in the Drawing Explorer. There are two xrefs and they are identical apart from the text and the thumbsize. In the top right part of the image both previews have a similar quality. But the preview on the bottom right is of a very poor quality.
    imageCompare_Tumbsize.png

    Compare_Tumbsize_Dwgs.zip

  • John Gaunt
    John Gaunt

    If I follow correctly, those pretty much follow my experience with the open file dialogue - they appear much better @ 64x64.

    I use xrefs though hadn't taken much notice of their preview, but opening files previewed @ 512x512 the view was so bad it might as well not exist.

    I suspect Bcad has adopted Acad's default along with the new approach for creating previews.

  • Roy Klein Gebbinck
    Roy Klein Gebbinck
    I have to correct my previous post:
    The previews in the top right part of the attached image are probably not derived from the previews saved with the drawing (they appear to be 'blockviews'). You should disregard the part starting with: "But a lot depends ...".

    @ John: You are right. In AC2011 THUMBSIZE can range from 0-2, with 1 being the default. In AC2014 the range is 0-8 and the default is 3.

    BTW:
    By changing the RASTERPREVIEW variable you can also save drawings without previews. Previews in the 'Open' dialog will then be generated 'on the fly' which can be slow for big drawings.
  • John Gaunt
    John Gaunt

    That's pretty weird too - Thumbsize=0... isn't really.

    After all these years I can still get a laugh out of Acad's stupid policies. (the same thumbsize issue has been discussed on Acad forums)

    I bet there was more than whimsy behind the original naming of Intellicad.

This discussion has been closed.