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The Unofficial Bricscad V14 Wishlist

Hi All,

looking at preparing an Unofficial BricsCAD Wishlist in the lead up to the Bricsys conference next month, and the expected release of V14. Anyone got some ideas of things they would like to vote on? If so post back here,  and I'll aim to get something up for next week.

My main wish actually would be an improvement to this Forums interface.

Note this is a duplicate post to the Windows Forum.

Regards,

Jason Bourhill

CAD Concepts

Comments

  •  Is it necessary to go to a 'version 14' rather than finishing a more complete version 13?
    This sort of comes off as an attempt to milk the market; the frequent version number upgrades and consequent costs to the user begins to negate the Brics cost advantages compared to other products.
    So, if it is a positive suggestion you want:
    Issue version 14 as a no-cost upgrade to version 13.
  • With all respect,
    an AutoCAD update is around 1.500 - 2.000 Euro, Acad LT is 1.000 - 1.500 Euro, each year, or similar via subscription;
    BricsCAD provides many updates in each version cycle, for both fixes and improvements, for free.
    You might also compare with AutoCAD - many issues are *not* fixed during a version cycle ...

    And, nobody forces you to update/upgrade - you can have your current version for lifetime, including support;
    also to be compared with big A...

    On the other side, many developers require a lot of not-yet-implemented APIs and features ... we also have to
    satisfy them, to have BricsCAD as platform; it is not only the end-user we need to respect.

    So I don't think this is fair ...
  •  Torsten,
    For fixes, I'd expect no cost, as you say.
    For 'improvements', a cost is reasonable. However, if this page ( http://www.bricsys.com/en_INTL/bricscad/comparison/ ) says an item is 'to be implemented' then I expect it would be implemented within the version number listed at the top of that column.
    Would you think that is fair?
  • Dear S Schuller,

    basically, when a feature is to *intended* to be implemented for a specified version, then it should be, indeed, I agree;
    but that comparision is probably not up-to-date, several (1) marked features are already available for Linux, like Lisp encryption.

    "For fixes, I'd expect no cost, as you say."
    This means, you will have to wait with an upgrade for the next 33 years :-)
    Software is never perfect, many issues + faults are even found during lifetime ... so error-free software is an illusion,
    you can not use such a philosophy as base for a commercial software.

    I have huge respect for all developers which are able to provide their software for free, no doubt - I also use many of them;
    but I have also to respect that some developers have to earn their living from ... btw., do you work for free ? :-)

    And especially for Linux we know what we are talking about :-) Struggeling with many many many issues along so many distributions,
    many differences etc.;
    not to forget, several features are not yet available under Linux, as we did not found a stable code version yet, which works
    constantly even with the few major distirbutions ... in other words, it is Linux itself making our lifes so hard here !
    We would cry for luck, if there would be a minimum common programming interfaces under Linux, but it isn't - the current
    common "minimum" is indeed rather small (think about the several C-runtime versions only, poor Unicode support etc. etc.).

    In turn, I think Bricsys has no problem to provide fixes for free ... in consequence, we would need to provide fixes for any version
    published ever, back to V8/9/10 ... and this is impossible to manage, we are not Google or Microsoft; so this is only a question
    of practical possibility; as prrof of my words : "why do we publish many update versions during a major version's life-cycle ?

    Many greetings & a nice day !
  •  Torsten,
    For fixes, I'd expect no cost, as you say.
    For 'improvements', a cost is reasonable. However, if this page ( http://www.bricsys.com/en_INTL/bricscad/comparison/ ) says an item is 'to be implemented' then I expect it would be implemented within the version number listed at the top of that column.
    Would you think that is fair?

    Ich möchte noch einen Anmerkung zum Preis machen.

    Ich hatte vor 2 Tage ein gespräch mit einem ACAD-Kunden,  er soll für sein Update von ACAD 2011 auf 2013,  je nach Ausführung  zwischen 3000,- und 4000,- € zahlen. Also nich 1500,- bis 2000,-€. . Die Preise wurden anfang des Jahres deutlich erhöht. Die Preis von BCAD kennt ja jeder.


  • We need more testing of the Solid Modelling work flow from Linux users to get a better idea of features not yet implemented or just not working.

    Can anyone report on their progress with Creating and manipulating Solids in Bricscad ? i.e.

    Creating complex solids
    Rendering and Wireframe views
    Generating 2d views with hidden lines
    Layout of the drawing - including sections
    Dimensioning

    Also
    Experiences with lisp.

    Personally I am looking forward to reviewing a 64bit version of Bricscad, as planned for Release 14.







  • And especially for Linux we know what we are talking about :-) Struggeling with many many many issues along so many distributions,
    many differences etc.;
    not to forget, several features are not yet available under Linux, as we did not found a stable code version yet, which works
    constantly even with the few major distirbutions ... in other words, it is Linux itself making our lifes so hard here !
    We would cry for luck, if there would be a minimum common programming interfaces under Linux, but it isn't - the current
    common "minimum" is indeed rather small (think about the several C-runtime versions only, poor Unicode support etc. etc.).



    Is this the lament of a Windows developer frustrated in dealing with a new environment ? It would be interesting to compare the development environment of Windows, Linux, Mac. The Microsoft Platform has become so pervasive in all walks of Industry that we treat it as the norm. When compared with this anything different will fall short.

    All walks of Industry and Enterprise have invested so much in the singular Windows Platform that is will be hard to walk away from- despite its huge drawbacks - as is becoming increasingly evident. The Business world has got a problem on its hands. How to encourage innovation and competition in this massive monopoly environment. Bricscad  to its credit is doing something new. Unfortunately it has little to no (development) support from Businesses that should be investing in Linux.

  • Personally, I don't want any new functionality. By my opinion, Bricsys team should focus on stabilizing Linux version. Time for some new functionallity will be when all current things will work perfectly. With only one exception: compatibility with new DWG version (hopefully Autodesk will maintain v2013 dwg for some time).

  • Dear Brian,

    short answer to

    "Is this the lament of a Windows developer frustrated in dealing with a new environment ? ..."

    NO :-)
    It is mainly the problem, that Linux is still 10 years behind developer support, compared to Windows.
    Few examples :
    - no generic graphics interface across all Linux platforms (except X11)
    - Unicode support : at max, around 30% of all string functions of C-runtime are available in Unicode version ...
      this is nearly trivial stuff, but Linux community never added the remaining 70%
    - the widely used "Win SDK" functions (few hundreds) are also never proted to Linux C-runtime ... but would also be
      more or less trivial stuff .. but 99% of all Windows applications use these APIs.

    We did reimplement most of this stuff ourselves ... tons of work.
    This is what Linux community never understood - to make Linux attractive for developers, providing "Windows-like" APIs,
    to make porting easier ... very sad.

    When you check the Web, you will find lot of companies how wanted to port to Linux, but gave-up, due to the lack of APIs :-(

    Many greetings !
  • To give my input to the original question asked in this thread (how is it even possible that the really negative guys are always the first to reply). My v.14 wish list;

    1. A final and really stable v.13 release to revert back to in case any user has some initial trouble with the upcoming v.14 release;
    BricsCAD for Linux v.13.2.16 is almost there. The 2D functionality is good (if the 'batman' bug is fixed) but the 3D graphics display issues is not good enough (it was actually better optimized in v.13.1.19 and this is the version we keep using at my office despite other short comings).

    2. Stability;
    Do a beta-testing period before releasing BricsCAD for Linux v.14. As long as the final v.13 release is really good I will be happy to participate in a beta testing period of v.14 while keeping v.13 installed at the same time for production work.

    3. Optimized 3D graphics display;
    I would love to see both wireframe and shaded 3D graphics running really smooth on my AMD GPU. No flickering and no parts of the model disappearing for a while when i rotate the model. In the 'graphics system device' option there is a 'not yet implemented' openGL option. Stable and fast OpenGL graphics 3D display like in Blender would be perfect.

    4. Wavefront object file format export;
    100% of 3D rendering studios and post processing 3D-modeling tools on the Linux platform has support for this format.
    Right now in order to render my building models I have to save a copy of the model, run '3Dconvert' on all solids, export to dxf, convert from dxf to obj in a windows application called Accutranz installed in wine, and finally import to my rendering studio Thea Render. Mature dxf-converters does not exist on Linux unless you purchase a product from autodesk (Maya) and nobody would want that.
    I have contacted the company selling the .obj plugin for BricsCAD for Windows and they do not release this functionality for the Linux version, so no one would get hurt if Bricsys included it in the Linux version as a standard tool.

    5. IFC (industry foundation classes) export and import;
    Being able to import/export IFC geometry and to match IFC-object-classes with acis solids on dwg-layers would be great. Modern 3D building design is all about exchanging data with other cad and bim tools and IFC is the new standard (it has the only really important property of an exchange format; no single company owns it).

    6. Development of '3dconvert' command;
    The ability to also convert objects from polyface mesh to acis solids (not only from acis solids to polyface mesh) would greatly improve the ability to model soft and irregular shapes in BricsCAD, for example the topography around a building.

    7. Please do not include any rendering plug-in in BricsCAD for Linux;
    An application should do what it does best and BricsCAD is not a rendering studio. With this philosophy any rendering plug-in will in my opinion be additional bloat-ware and I would rather not have it. Give us the .obj exporter instead, it is way better and costs less.

    Thanks for asking
    /Mikael
  • So, to sum up this thread so far: the biggest wish of linux users for V14 is a stable V13...
     
    @Mikael

    I agree with all your points, but I think some are unrealistic:

    as to 1. :
    100% subscribing, I think the 2d part just needs a little more bugfixing to merit a 'stable' label, and this should definitely be done before moving forward with V14 - e.g. fields are still broken in 13.2.16, which I consider a major regression that cannot be left undone. PDF export also still suffers from many flaws that should be addressed since it is such an indispensable feature nowadays.

    as to 2. :
    Bricsys already acknowledged that releasing 13.2 without a beta phase was wrong, so I guess you can take this for granted.

    as to 3. :
    Not sure if Bricsys can do a lot about this, since they rely on Redway. Maybe they should just lower the price of the pro version a bit to compensate (or scrap the platinum version and give the pro version the additional functionality until pro and platinum are on par with windows).
     
    as to 4. :
    What about collada? As far as I know, it is more of an open standard, and (despite of its complexity) is also quite well supported in the CG world, plus the ODA had an exporter in beta quite a while ago, stating that "full API and platform support will be available to ODA members in the upcoming 3.5.1 release" (the current release is 3.9).
    As to .obj, there is a promising exporter written in LISP ( http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?267990-Direct-Autocad-Intellicad-to-Blender-exporter-LISP-to-Download ) that could be built upon - unfortunately, the Linux version of BricsCAD crashes when you invoke it, and - despite reassurance from Torsten Moses that he had implemented all needed functions, there has not been visible progress on this lately.

    as to 5. :
    Being an architect myself, I would definitely appreciate IFC support, but I think this is a major feature that will not be integrated in the base product but rather into some kind of vertical application. The release of the BIM module beta plus announcements from Bricsys seem to hint that you can expect something there - but it remains to be seen if Bricsys will undertake the effort to cater for Linux again...

    as to 6.:
    This is certainly a valid request, but converting meshes to solids 1:1 would yield usable results only for very simple geometry. Theoretically, it would be possible to analyze meshes and fit analytical geometry through faceted curved one, but that's probably rocket science for anything but spheres. My approach would rather be to have the respective commands (flatshot and sectionplane, maybe slice and booleans) support meshes directly. But a SR that I filed for this two years ago is still in 'new' state, so I guess Bricsys doesn't see a need for this.

    and finally to 7.:
    Totally agree (but as far as I understand, rendering is also provided by redway, so Bricsys might already have paid for it) - I think that rendering in a CAD package is quite an obsolete approach. What I would like to see, however, is shaded vector output (like Sketchup has), also in perspective mode, and maybe with vectorized shadows... but now I'm getting unrealistic...

  • Small correction: according to the V14 help, collada support will be in the base product, so using external render engines might get much easier.

  • Thank you for your comments Knut!

    I know as well that IFC support etc is probably not in the pipe-line for v.14, but it was a wish list ;)

    Regarding no. 3 in my list; 3D graphics display just have to be more optimized because now this is the main reason why we have not upgraded to v.13.2.16 at my office. Like I wrote: The graphics display works much better in the earlier version v.13.1.19, so I actually do not think this is entirely tied to the Redway development.
  • I'm having trouble when working with polylines, pedit and pline.
    Some of the things, like (e)dit in pedit, simply do not go to the next point in the polyline.  Well, they do, but the screen doesn't update unless you wiggle the mouse, so you don't see which intersection you are pointing at when you try to (i)nsert a vertex or move one. 

    This is a display problem, I think,  because I have noticed it with several commands having nothing to do with a polyline, a wiggle of the mouse brings the display back.  So it could be two things, some commands are not asking for a re-display, and it could (also) be something in the re-display itself isn't performing the display.

    You asked, and that is one thing that makes things hard to work with, that I would like fixed for the next version.

    A feature that I would like to add in the next version:
    I draw a lot of shafts and I would like one feature that is in Autocad since 12 or so, but is not in Bricscad.
    I want to use the offset command, and when my prints give me diameters, I want to type in -cal and divide them by 2 to get radius to offset.  Autocad lets you use -cal at the offset prompt, and you get a command line to type a formula in at,  at "-cal expression:" prompt in autocad you type 1.15626 / 2  (enter) and it gives the radius to the offset command for you.

    I also use -cal woith the offset command, for drawing radii for calculating the blank length for bent sheet metal blanks, offsetting by 1/3 of sheetmetal thickness to calculate certain radius bends (or 1/2 sheetmetal thickness for other bend radii)  The use here is not so important for everybody, I know, but it is important to me and since I  am used to autocad and use it at some workstations, I want it to function the same in these ways.
    (I know you can also type in a lisp expression, something like (/ 1.15626 2) but it is cumbersome.

    Currently, the cal command in Bricscad brings up whatever system calculator you have it set to bring up, but does not have an option to bring up a command line calculator like Autocad has done since R12.  What would it take to add this command line calculator?

    Thank you for considering these things,
    S.Mitchell
  • ...ok let's hope IFC import and export will be available in an upcoming release of the Bricsys Communicator add-on.

    What would be almost as good is if sectionplanes were able to cut through (polyface)mesh objects. It would be a great enhancement if we were able to import dwg exports (from Tekla Structures, Magicad, etc) into our Architectural building models and cut 2D floor plans and cross sections through our own solid geometry as well as the imported polyface mesh models.
    Very few applications in the building industry can export acis solids, but most can export polyface mesh dwg files.

    According to the BricsCAD manual this functionality of sectionplanes is already in place, so maybe we will see it realized in v14 (no idea if it is the case in the Windows version).

    /Mikael
  • Hi All,

    looking at preparing an Unofficial BricsCAD Wishlist in the lead up to the Bricsys conference next month, and the expected release of V14. Anyone got some ideas of things they would like to vote on? If so post back here,  and I'll aim to get something up for next week.

    My main wish actually would be an improvement to this Forums interface.

    Note this is a duplicate post to the Windows Forum.

    Regards,

    Jason Bourhill

    CAD Concepts



    I think is very important to add possibility to import and export in formats .stp; step; .igs; iges


  • I think is very important to add possibility to import and export in formats .stp; step; .igs; iges



    Sorry, this post is old......
  • Use F11 (or whatever) to enable fullscreen (no window decoration).

    It's a fairly common feature of gtk+ gui's.
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