linetype scales

I submitted a support request on this, but did not like the answer I got.  So I wondered if anyone here has some thoughts on this.

There's been a change in the way linetypes are represented in some of my new and old drawings.      Generally, in the past, if I had the linetype scale set to "1", and drew a "hidden" linetype, I could see the segments making up the line, unless I was zoomed in too close, or zoomed out too far.  If the segments were visible and I switched the line from the "hidden" linetype to a "centerline", I still saw segments.  

Recently however, I've had to go to a linetype scale of ".005" just to see the segments in a "centerline", whereas a scale of  '1" still shows me the segments in a  "hidden" line.   

I am assuming linetype definition got corrupted, when the drawing was loaded.  How do I fix this, when it occurs?  I recall that Autocad had a way to reload linetypes from the definition file.  But I have not found this in BricsCAD.   Can you edit the linetype definition file?  How?

Comments

  • Linetypes can be confusing.

    There are two standard definition files: default.lin and iso.lin (the metric version of the definitions used if MEASUREMENT is ON). And there are four variables that apply: CELTSCALE (controls the ltscale property of new entities), LTSCALE, MSLTSCALE and PSLTSCALE.

    Your problem seems to be caused by a linetype definition in the drawing that does not match the definition in the .lin file that you normally use. This can be caused by a wrong setting of the MEASUREMENT variable (although I would then expect an error factor of 1/25.4=0.039). Or because the definition comes from a foreign source (for example attached to a block that was inserted).

    You can reload linetypes using the _LINETYPE or _-LINETYPE command.

    Linetype files are normal text files. There are two sets of .lin files. One is stored in the UserDataCache folder of the BricsCAD program folder. This set is a backup. To find the file that is being used you can enter this on the command line: (findfile "default.lin")

    The .lin files for V14.2.12 are the same as the V13 files.
  • If reloading the linetype does not solve your problem you should upload a sample dwg.
  •  I can say that I have also experienced times when I cannot get a linetype to display on a particular line.  And like you, I resort to extreme LTSCALE settings to get them to show up.  It doesn't happen very often, so it is hard to send a support request for stuff like that.

    -Joe
  • Hello Guys,

    I guess there might be another issue here:
    with the arrival of scales, you are not supposed to set LTSCALE manually anymore - it gets multiplied by the resulting value from your CANNOSCALE setting.
    So, either set CANNOSCALE and leave LTSCALE at 1, or do the opposite, but if you set both, you will apply your scale factor twice...

    Or to put it otherwise: if you want everything to function as before, make sure CANNOSCALE is set to 1:1.

    (disclaimer: as far as I understand - I did not dig deeply into this overly complex 'scales' thing yet)
  •  Personally, I was aware of those other settings, though I never used them.  I really want to see what the end results will be, and not have it vary on me.  So, in my case Cannoscale s 1:1.  I only use the global LTSCALE and occasionally the specific LTSCALE for a line.

    -joe
  •  I can't say as I've noticed any difference swapping from acad to bricscad, linetypes seem to work just fine and scale accordingly

    LTScale is always 1 for my work (normally working in meters)

    Example of my .lin code

    ;>>>> THESE LINETYPES ARE CONVERTED FROM THE ACAD.lin AND HAVE BEEN SCALED TO SUIT LTSCALE 1
    ;------------------------------------------------------

    *BORDER - MEL,STANDARD - BORDER __ __ . __ __ . __ __ . __ __ . __ __ .
    A,5.0,-2.5,5.0,-2.5,0,-2.5

    *BORDER2 - MEL,STANDARD - BORDER (.5x) __.__.__.__.__.__.__.__.__.__.__.
    A,2.5,-1.25,2.5,-1.25,0,-1.25

    *BORDERX2 - MEL,STANDARD - BORDER (2x) ____  ____  .  ____  ____  .  ___
    A,10.0,-5.0,10.0,-5.0,0,-5.0

    Three of each in case I want a bigger line, not for any scaling issues

    I've created my own scales to combat the meters vs millimeters issue (model vs paper space) and have them named with a suffix 'm'
    Command SCALELISTEDIT (this will bring up the scale list dialogue and allow you to edit, add, delete etc.)
    Standard scale of 1:250 in the edit shows Paper units 1 : Drawing units 250 (corresponding to paper and model space)
    so I add my own scales "1:250 m" 
    Paper units 1000 : Drawing units 250 (millimeters to meters)

    That way all my linetypes are visible in model space and always scale in paper space

    Just right click on the annotation scale (bottom left) pick your working scale 1:250 m and set your viewport to the same and your good to go.  Text and dims all work the same, easy as.

    I also remove any unwanted scales, imperial for instance and unusual scales (1:12.5 for instance) so I only have about 12 scales which does 95%.  Simpler the better for people that don't use cad much

    Hope that helps
    L.




  •  I can say that I have also experienced times when I cannot get a linetype to display on a particular line.  And like you, I resort to extreme LTSCALE settings to get them to show up.  It doesn't happen very often, so it is hard to send a support request for stuff like that.

    -Joe

    Always check that the line is "flat"and that you have not inadvertently snapped on an object that has a different z value - this will screw up the way a linetype is represented in plan view.
  • Thanks again everyone.   A lot to chew over here.  You guys obviously have much more experience than I do.  

     I checked one of the drawings I had problems with.  "Cannoscale" was set to "1:1".   (Didn't even know that variable existed.)    "Measurement" was set to "off".   

    I fixed the problem by reloading the linetype.  I don't know why I couldn't figure out how to do that from the drawing explorer, but I got it reloaded with "_-LINETYPE".    Thanks Roy.    I also think you are right about how this happened.  I transfer a lot of blocks from drawing to drawing, I suspect the problem came from a block that was inserted.

    I confess to being very confused about all the scaling factors.  I find myself changing scaling factors in model space, to make them appear correct in paper space.   I guess it is time for me to stop being so lazy and start reading the help screens.
  • To reload a linetype with the _LINETYPE command you have to use the 'New' button and then select the linetype you want to update.
  • Simple.  Thanks Roy!
  • Jim, there's also a WYSIWYG option for linetype scale:
    If you set PSLTSCALE = OFF, then all dashed lines look the same in modelspace as in any viewport, regardless of VP scale.
    So you can control the appearance of dashed lines in modelspace, using CELTSCALE and the Properties palette and the MATCHPROP command.
    You won't have to check to see what they look like in the layout tab.
    If you want the dashed lines to be solid so you can snap to an intersection, just change LTSCALE temporarily.
    NOTE: The default value of PSLTSCALE is ON. So you have to clear it for each new layout. Or do that in a template file & layout.

  •  Hey Jim,

    The _CANNOSCALE is how you set the annotative scale and much easier if you don't type it.  Use the annotation scale button bottom left that will pull up all your scales and pick the one you want to work with in model space.  Paper space is always set to 1:1 to match your drawing sheet.

    Then select your view port and set that to the same scale as model space and your done.

    If you've set all your text, dims and leaders to annotative text they will autoscale to the model space scale.

    Hopefully your line types should be the same



  •  Linetype definitions are read from a *.lin file. Which *.lin file is used is controlled by the MEASUREMENT system variable:
    MEASUREMENT = ON: Iso.lin: Linetype defintions are expressed in mm. 
    MEASUREMENT = OFF: Default.lin: Linetype definitions are expressed in inch.
    Since LTSCALE controls the overall linetype scaling, this variable must be set with respect to the drawing units (DU):
    DU   LTSCALE
    mm   1
    cm 0.1
    m 0.001
    inch 1
    foot 1/12
    The Plot Scale setting of the Page Setup must be set to the same value as LTSCALE.
    PSLTSCALE controls linetype scaling in paperspace layouts. If ON, linetype scaling is independent from the viewport scale.
    So in general, PSLTSCALE is best set ON. Remember that this variable can be set per layout.
    If MSLTSCALE is ON, the current annotation scale (CANNOSCALE) is applied to linetypes in model space.
    MSLTSCALE is best set OFF. It might be usefull to switch it ON when printing from model space.

    CELTSCALE: sets the value of the Linetype Scale property for new entities. This variable is best set to 1.
  • Bricscad 16.1.02.
    During the last few days I have also been having linetype problems with drawings that behaved normally in the past.

    CANNOSCALE 1:1 , LTSCALE 1 , UNITS mm , MEASUREMENT ON , PSLTSCALE 1 ,
    Line object properties scaled 1.0, loaded the same linetype file we have used for years,
    drawing lines in paperspace, the linetypes now display at a scale of 20 x to 50 x times what they used to display.

    Cant find the problem, just patch it by setting object linetype scale to 0.05 or something.
     
    I have noticed the functionality of dimension scaling in viewports has changed with BricsCAD 16.
    In the past you could just set Standard Scale on a Viewport (Or zoom 1/NNxP) and the dimensions would scale correctly.
    Now it is necessary that Annotation Scale is also set (and it automatically sets Standard Scale) in order to get dimensions to scale correctly.

    So maybe something has changed in the linetype scaling too ??
  • I apologize profusely to everyone here.  Roy told me how to reload the linetype, and since that solved the problem at hand, I left the discussion.  I should have at least thanked everyone, and announced my intention to depart. 
    I wish I could get email alerts whenever new replies are made to the threads I start.   I get too busy with my work to camp out at the forum. 

    Anthony, Liam, Louis and Richard - You gave me a lot of additional information on Linetypes that I will have to "chew on".   Thank you. 

    Thanks again all, and again sorry for my rudeness.  It was not intentional.   I depend on the good people here for a lot of advice, hints and tricks, and hope I have not burned my bridges.    I need to offer my help more often too.   

    Bye for now! 


  •  The "subscribe to this topic" check mark used to be on another area of the screen, but now is right next to the "post" button.  However, it defaults to being off.   When I first registered for this forum, this process certainly kept me from subscribing to threads I started. My past experience on other boards, was that you automatically were subscribed to threads you started, and often it would happen automatically to topics you replied to.  This option is a setting you can put onto your profile settings on most boards.  

     I do wish Bricsys would just abandon this one. There have been improvements over the years, but problems persist. I know this is off topic, but there are actually a number of issues with this forum, you see it manifested as double empty lines between paragraphs, and problems with inserting code that is properly formatted.

    -Joe
  •  The "subscribe to this topic" check mark used to be on another area of the screen, but now is right next to the "post" button.  However, it defaults to being off.   When I first registered for this forum, this process certainly kept me from subscribing to threads I started. My past experience on other boards, was that you automatically were subscribed to threads you started, and often it would happen automatically to topics you replied to.  This option is a setting you can put onto your profile settings on most boards.  

     I do wish Bricsys would just abandon this one. There have been improvements over the years, but problems persist. I know this is off topic, but there are actually a number of issues with this forum, you see it manifested as double empty lines between paragraphs, and problems with inserting code that is properly formatted.

    -Joe

  • Thanks Joe.  Boy am I a klutz...   I quoted your comments, then somehow hit the "post" button before commenting!
    I'm 61 years old and don't even use a cellphone..  So now you know who you are dealing with. 

    If subscribing will give me an email alert, I will do that every time I start a new thread.   As for this thread (linetypes), I think it has been flogged enough.    I will print the discussion out to mull over on my own time.

    Bye!

  •  I am 51.  I suspect that many of us old guys understand the computer better, since we were tinkering with them when the user needed to understand what was going on under the hood.  Nowadays that is a lot harder to learn about. The computer software is both more complex, and the documentation tends to be very poor. Sometimes the CAD guy can't even fully control their computer, because that is under the jurisdiction of the computer support department.

    -Joe
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