Bricscad BIM Display

Walter Vardanega

 I like the way that Bricscad BIM is developing. One thing that I think needs addressing is the display of the model.

In Bricscad the display looks sterile especially when compared what can be done with Styles in Sketchup.

I really hope that Bricscad will soon allow styles similar to that available in Sketchup.

Tom Foster

Or comprehensive automatic 2D resymbolisation, such as in Bentley Building Designer (BD):

Once you've established your cut planes for 2D views, for each Part (Material in BricsBIM) you can specify how it appears in the 2D, in all the following respects;
i.e. regardless of how elements appear in the 3D, they can be 'resymbolised' to automatically appear quite different in the 2D views:
The cut edge of elements  (lineweight, linetype, colour)
The cross-sectional fill of cut elements - either/or hatch or render
The appearance of element edges (lineweight, linetype, colour) and surfaces (render) that are visible beyond the cut plane e.g. the window cill that's visible below a plan-view cut plane
Ditto for element edges that are visible behind the cut plane, to create a reflected (mirror image) view e.g. ceiling plan (looking up)
Both the above include the elements that are visible, looking from the cut plane, within 2 depth zones you set, beyond and behind the cut plane
Brand new in BD is ability to also show selected element edges within that depth zone, which are not visible (i.e. hidden behind another element) - so e.g. you can do a dotted 'hidden beam obove'.

In 3D, for each Part (Material in BricsBIM) you can specify how it appears in the 3D -
edges of elements  (lineweight, linetype, colour)
surfaces of elements (render).

Walter Vardanega

 Thanks Tom

Is there any help files on this topic.

Miguel Palaoro

 Hello,

There is another aproach in DataCAD with its smart symbols which allow you to fully define how a 2D plane view will appear for 3D objects, regardless of its complexity.

It can vary in details also for each printing scale, what cleans up a 2D drawing in a splendid way.

The symbol is composed and managed in multiple layers, and all these can have attributes that become aware of the "UCS" viewing position, plane view and out-of-plane view.

Tom Foster

Interesting - is this managed by putting drawn 3D Elements on Layers which have alternative view (appearance) settings, the alternative being activated under certain circustances, like when in a 2D view (file?) extracted from a 3D model?

That would sound like a heavy load to put into the Layers system.

The Bentley 'resymbolisation of Parts' way that I described has the advantage that
a) the definition of desired alternative appearance is done in the Parts (Materials in BricsBIM) system, on a Part by Part (Material by Material) basis - i.e. different for each Part (Material)
b) all this data would be kept out of the Layers system, so Layers can be used for other kinds of purposes.

Or do you mean it worsk some other way in DataCAD?

Miguel Palaoro

 Yes.  That's closer.

You can prepare your symbol with all kind of different (possible) behaviors for each of these situations.

The layers with its attributes will control from which is the viewer orientation and printing scales, and, among the layers which one will be displayed at each case.

Walter Vardanega

 When I prepare blocks for Bricscad I prepare hybrid blocks ie 3d and 2d parts. Each is located on separate layers ie 3D and 2D. Then it is easy to toggle 2d layers on and off as required.

Walter Vardanega

@walter vardanega:

 I like the way that Bricscad BIM is developing. One thing that I think needs addressing is the display of the model.

In Bricscad the display looks sterile especially when compared what can be done with Styles in Sketchup.

I really hope that Bricscad will soon allow styles similar to that available in Sketchup.

Attached is an example block

Washing Machine Top Loader 1.dwg

Tom Foster

Looks like we're discussing 3 different things in this thread
1) Walter started with, as i now understand it, how to make the 2D or 3D model look more interesting, with linestyles, 'hand drawn' lines, render etc
2) I understood, and went off on, resymbolisation of 2Ds extracted by section planes from a 3D model
3) Walter's now talking about blocks that display differently/appropriately depending whether they are inserted into a 2D or a 3D model (or a 3D model rotated to Top view?)

Tom Foster

I'd like to understand more about Miguel's alternative approah to 2) above, as implimented in DataCAD. Is there any video, blog or Help file that explains it, that you could post?

Miguel Palaoro

@Tom Foster:

I'd like to understand more about Miguel's alternative approah to 2) above, as implimented in DataCAD. Is there any video, blog or Help file that explains it, that you could post?

Hello Tom.

I'll search for it and post it here.

Miguel Palaoro

@walter vardanega:

 When I prepare blocks for Bricscad I prepare hybrid blocks ie 3d and 2d parts. Each is located on separate layers ie 3D and 2D. Then it is easy to toggle 2d layers on and off as required.

Hello Walter,

In DataCAD procedure it's this same path, except for the last step, where you don't have to "choose" to turn on/off layers.  It does by itself, because becomes aware of viewer position (plane/not-plane view) and drawing detail scale on printing.

Tom Foster

@Miguel Palaoro:

Hello Walter,

In DataCAD ... becomes aware of ... drawing detail scale on printing.

Now that is truly Massive! - automatic Level of Detail (LOD)

Walter Vardanega

@Tom Foster:

Looks like we're discussing 3 different things in this thread
1) Walter started with, as i now understand it, how to make the 2D or 3D model look more interesting, with linestyles, 'hand drawn' lines, render etc
2) I understood, and went off on, resymbolisation of 2Ds extracted by section planes from a 3D model
3) Walter's now talking about blocks that display differently/appropriately depending whether they are inserted into a 2D or a 3D model (or a 3D model rotated to Top view?)

Yes I realised that.  But here wasnt much interest in my original post. 

Miguel Palaoro

@Tom Foster:

I'd like to understand more about Miguel's alternative approah to 2) above, as implimented in DataCAD. Is there any video, blog or Help file that explains it, that you could post?

Hello Tom,

Here is one: View-dependent Symbols

http://www.datacad.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=13469

Unfortunately not a really great video quality, although you can taste its features.

This one is much better to see other smart symbol features: Inserting Symbols in 3D

http://www.datacad.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=13518

If I find another one will post it here.

Best regards,

Miguel

Tom Foster

Thanks Miguel, v interesting - it's about 3) in my list of 3.

So maybe I'm hijacking the thread, by talking about 2) - resymbolisation of 2Ds extracted by section planes from a 3D model. But still ...

It looks like "There is another aproach in DataCAD with its smart symbols which allow you to fully define how a 2D plane view will appear for 3D objects" isn't in fact an alternative approach to 2) - resymbolisation.

I doubt that BricsBIM Materials/Compositions could be put into a format like a DataCad Symbol. If it could, then its appearance, varying depending of the what way it's viewed - 2D file, 3D file, 2D (Top) view within a 3D file, and 2D extracted by section plane from a 3D model - would be controlled by switching Levels on or off, done automatically by the system detecting what kind of view you're in - also LOD by the system detecting what scale an output drawing is to be printed at. All set up within the Levels system.

If BricsBIM Materials/Compositions are instead defined as Properties (?) of each Material, and of each multi-layer Composition of those Materials, then same effect could be achieved for all the different size/shaped instances of each Material/Composition - hard to do those different size/shapes within a format like a DataCad symbol.

The LOD variation would be good applied to Materials - but most invaluable applied to Compositions. The multi-lines/multi-fills that a Composition looks like in a 2D view, are fine at large (e.g. 1:5 detail) scale, but need simplifying in a pre-set way, at smaller (e.g. 1:50 layout, 1:200 site) scales.

Clayton Taylor

@Tom Foster:

Or comprehensive automatic 2D resymbolisation, such as in Bentley Building Designer (BD):

Once you've established your cut planes for 2D views, for each Part (Material in BricsBIM) you can specify how it appears in the 2D, in all the following respects;
i.e. regardless of how elements appear in the 3D, they can be 'resymbolised' to automatically appear quite different in the 2D views:
The cut edge of elements  (lineweight, linetype, colour)
The cross-sectional fill of cut elements - either/or hatch or render
The appearance of element edges (lineweight, linetype, colour) and surfaces (render) that are visible beyond the cut plane e.g. the window cill that's visible below a plan-view cut plane
Ditto for element edges that are visible behind the cut plane, to create a reflected (mirror image) view e.g. ceiling plan (looking up)
Both the above include the elements that are visible, looking from the cut plane, within 2 depth zones you set, beyond and behind the cut plane
Brand new in BD is ability to also show selected element edges within that depth zone, which are not visible (i.e. hidden behind another element) - so e.g. you can do a dotted 'hidden beam obove'.

In 3D, for each Part (Material in BricsBIM) you can specify how it appears in the 3D -
edges of elements  (lineweight, linetype, colour)
surfaces of elements (render).

Hi Tom, (& Miguel)

I'd like to see a movie on how BRICSYS-CAD-BIM extracts the 2D plans from the 3D model & deals with all the levels of plan presentation, i.e. Hatching, Line weights, Fills, Text & Symbols as you describe above. This seems to be the missing punchline to their limited video tutorials on the BRICSYS WEBSITE. I use a variety of Architectural CAD software tools, DataCAD for 2D in conjunction with SketchUp, as never really got on with DC 3D. Quite a few 3D Architectural CAD/BIM software products have adopted SU Layout feature for your 2D model extracted plans for presentation from the 3D model. 

My ultimate goal though is to have one software tool that I'm comfortable with. I've not seen BRICSYS-CAD-BIM before, but I do like the 3D approach whereby you can draw in the 3D environment. It initially looks like SU & BCB have been merged together as one. My endeavors to find a 'One-for-all' has led me to SPIRIT (a turbo charged version of DataCAD - long story) which I purchased, but no real flight time yet for real projects. Then recently a few others, looking only, (including BCB to date) SU/PLUS-SPEC, VISUAL-ARQ, FORM-Z, ELITE-CAD & ACCA software - EDIFICIUS. The latter is too good to be true when you look at the purchase cost.

I've created a YOU-TUBE Channel where all the above are located in terms of video tutorials for anyone to explore. Please see link below:-

https://www.youtube.com/user/MrCADCHANNEL

There are more extensive ones on SPIRIT, but I'm still uncertain which CAD Tool I should run with for a 'One-for-all' (been saying this for an age). However drawing in a 3D environment is my current thinking which may drive my decision.

Over & out,

Clayton