stuck with "3D Direct Modeling Basic Commands" tutorial

Eric Ratliff

1) I am trying to follow this tutorial. I cannot trim two of the four circles. I get the error "Cannot trim this entity". The ones that won't trim are the upper right and lower left. The problem seems to be the presence of the solid. If I try to trim before extruding, it works. But, the tutorial shows trimming after the extrude working. This problem happens in drawing "Button_B.dwg". 2) DMPUSHPULL won't recognize the region I created. I get this: ======================= : DMPUSHPULL Select faces to push/pull: Entities in set: 1 Select faces to push/pull: Specify distance: @1.2 Unable to recognize entry. Please try again. ======================= This problem happens in drawing "Button_C.dwg". Any ideas why TRIM and DMPUSHPULL are not working for me? I am using platinum 16.2.08 x 64 on Windows 8.1

Jason Bourhill

Hi Eric,

The tutorial on Direct Modelling is for an older version of BricsCAD. With V16 you don't need to go through these steps. Instead:

1. Make sure you are in a 3D modelling workspace, set SELECTIONMODES = 7.
2. Use Offset Boundary from the QUAD to create your rectangle.
3. Quick right click to bring up the QUAD, then create a CIRCLE at one of the corners of the rectangle.
4. Use COPY from the QUAD to copy the CIRCLE to the other corners of the rectangle.
5. Use DMEXTRUDE from the QUAD with boundary detection to cut the profile through the solid.
   

As shown in this video: https://youtu.be/qvgWu1FVmvE

Note with DMEXTRUDE you can press CTRL to cycle through creation options.


Regards,

Jason Bourhill

CAD Concepts

Roy Klein Gebbinck

Jason has pointed out a more efficient way to create the model.
If you want to stick to the steps in the original tutorial:
1.
Your trimming problem boils down to selecting the right 'to trim' entity. It can be solved by using the Tab key to cycle through overlapping entities. See the Help.
2.
DmPushPull does not work with regions in V16. You can use DmExtrude instead.

Jason Bourhill

@Roy Klein Gebbinck:

Your trimming problem boils down to selecting the right 'to trim' entity. It can be solved by using the Tab key to cycle through overlapping entities.

Since V16.2 the QUAD gives the name of the highlighted entity. This makes it much easier to confirm that you've selected the correct entity as you Tab through.

Regards,

Jason Bourhill

CAD Concepts

Sander Scheiris

 We are working on a new tutorial.

Eric Ratliff

@Jason Bourhill:

4. Use COPY from the QUAD to copy the CIRCLE to the other corners of the rectangle.

5. Use DMEXTRUDE from the QUAD with boundary detection to cut the profile through the solid. 

Thanks Jason, for the quicker method and for making the video.

Extrude worked.  I think 'boundary detection' means waiting for the boundary I want to appear while moving the mouse.  Then, when I see it, right click to get the quad.

As shown in "quadding a boundry.png".

quadding a boundry.png

Eric Ratliff

@Roy Klein Gebbinck:

...
Your trimming problem boils down to selecting the right 'to trim' entity. It can be solved by using the Tab key to cycle through overlapping entities. See the Help. 

...

Since V16.2 the QUAD gives the name of the highlighted entity. 

Thanks for suggesting tabbing.  I click to select when I see the entity I want.  I tried to see entity type while tabbing, but did not.  Sometimes I came up with a solid edge rather than an arc.  The quad showing the entity type is great for confirming I selected the right entity.  The help you linked says to use the control key, this helps in selecting an arc instead of the edge.

Eric Ratliff

Now I don't understand how the next step is done.  Selecting edges for filleting.

At 1:37 the tutorial voice says:  "unnecessary edges can be deselected manually"

see "manual deselect.png"

I can select the edges of whole faces.  How do I deselect one edge of a face?  I can't (even with tab) get a single edge segment to highlight.

work around:

I was able to do the filleting in two steps.

1) select vertical edges, fillet them

"equal length edges.png"

2) select bottom edges, fillet them

"one face select.png"

manual deselect.png

one face select.png

equal length edges.png

Jason Bourhill

Again there are now different approaches for doing this:

1. To select vertical edges. highlight one edge, then select 'Same Length Edges' from the QUAD.
2. Select the bottom edges by highlighting the face, then select 'Edges' from the QUAD
3. Move over one of the edges, then select 'Fillet' from the QUAD

You can deselect a edges individually by hovering over them, then pick with the mouse while holding the 'Shift' key down. This is the same approach you can take when working with selection sets with 2D entities. Pressing 'Shift' momentarily toggles to deselect.

You can also use window and crossing window techniques to quickly select Solids/Faces/Edges. Here you use the 'Ctrl' key to cycle through selection options. I use this in the linked example to fillet the edges on the bottom of the case.

https://youtu.be/_2bUVyM049k

Regards,

Jason Bourhill

CAD Concepts

Eric Ratliff

@Jason Bourhill:

Again there are now [with versions newer than the tutorial E.R.] different approaches for doing this:

1. To select vertical edges. highlight one edge, then select 'Same Length Edges' from the QUAD.
2. Select the bottom edges by highlighting the face, then select 'Edges' from the QUAD
3. Move over one of the edges, then select 'Fillet' from the QUAD

That worked.  In this case, it is necessary to select the 'edges of same length' first.  If I select the face first, then all elements of the face are also included in the 'edges of same length'.  That gets edge segments that I don't want.

Also, I find that hovering the mouse over an edge segment and shift left clicking usually works.  If the edge segment in the selection set is hidden, or on a hidden face, it will not.  I need to move the mouse away from the edge segment I deselected to see that it is gone.  I almost succeeded this way, "almost shift deleted all.png".

almost shift deleted all.png

Eric Ratliff

 and... Jason, thanks for the additional video!

All,

I also had problems doing _bmNew,

"bmNew.png"

1) A new drawing appeared, but there seemed to be no entities in it.  The old drawing seems unchanged.  No component I think.

2) The menu bar disappeared (I might have clicked something by accident)

3) All the tool bars disappeared (I think I should back up my tool bar states to recover from this)

I looked up the command.

V16 user guide, BmNew

It takes no arguments.  Pre selecting a solid does not help.  Perhaps I need to paste the solid in there.  But, that is nothing like what the tutorial looked like.  Perhaps I need to:

-make the empty component drawine

-copy the solid I want (to origin?)

-delete that solid from the original drawing

-insert a reference (?) to the new component, carefully putting it at the location the old one came from

That seems much more complicated than the tutorial.

Anybody know a way to make the new component in the original drawing?

bmNew.png

Ilya Tatarnikov

 Eric, 

You should use BMFORM command, not BMNEW.

Eric Ratliff

@Ilya Tatarnikov:

 Eric, 

You should use BMFORM command, not BMNEW.

Oops, sorrry.  Thanks Ilya.

"BmForm.png"

I saw that too, watching the tutorial again.

Oddly, there are no tool tips on the Assembly tool bar.

BmForm.png

Ilya Tatarnikov

The work will be much easier if you will use RIBBON.

ribbon.PNG

Tom Foster

@Eric Ratliff: "I think 'boundary detection' means waiting for the boundary I want to appear while moving the mouse.  Then, when I see it, right click to get the quad."

It was explained to me that the whole of the boundaried area must be visible on screen, and also that the mouse's selection square must be entirely within the boundary. With long thin boundaried areas that may not be possible, or only after much mousing around.

I still find boundary detection, coupled with SelectionModes, extremely tricky, fussy, unpredictable, uncontrollable/optimisable, annoying.

Eric Ratliff

@Ilya Tatarnikov:

The work will be much easier if you will use RIBBON.

Thanks for the tip.  After trying the ribbon, I agree.  It might also be easier to find a traditional job using the ribbon.

For instance, the quad did not make clear which type of extrude I am using.

"1 quad ambiguous extrude.png"

Perhaps quad always uses direct modeling.

With the ribbon the icons for extrude and dmExtrude are identical.  But, they are in different places.  That helps.

"2 plain extrude.png"

"3 dmExtrude.png"

Also (like Cadds 4X menus I used years ago) I like having text and an icon to see.  The command line also seems fast to me.

3 dmExtrude.png

2 plain extrude.png

1 quad ambiguous extrude.png

Eric Ratliff

I still find boundary detection, coupled with SelectionModes, extremely tricky, fussy, unpredictable, uncontrollable/optimisable, annoying.

I found that setting the QUADDISPLAY variable to 4 makes what happens on screen as the mouse moves more predictable.  This way I have to right click to see the quad cursor.  It does not flash up suddenly.  Then, its choices can be helpful in knowing what I am selecting.

quad helps know what is being selected.png