Elbow pain and switching mouse hand

Tim Neumann

Yeah this has to be in the "Other" category. Been having pain in my outer elbow (tennis elbow???) but didn't know if this would be the result of CAD work for many years. Anyone else have this symptom? I thought wrist pain was usually the culprit but not having that. Anyhow I switched the mouse to the left hand (I'm a southpaw anyways) to see if it'll help. This will not be pretty.

jgaunt

I had pain from my elbow toward the wrist.
Wondered if I could do the work for much longer.
A physiotherapist showed me how to stretch the forearm muscle by bending/twisting the wrist, I still do that occasionally when it tightens and gets a bit sore again.
And I switched to a trackball, and I use the zoom wheel of another with my other (left) hand.
Logitech marbles were good, now I use a CST which is more robust.
I will never use a mouse again.

Louis_Verdonck

When using a mouse it is important to put the mouse at a distance of approx. 40 cm (16") from the edge of your desk in order to rest your complete forearm on the desk.

Tim Neumann

Thanks fellas for the tips.

jgaunt, how long did it take to get used to the trackball? My co-worker has one, but he started out with it - never used a mouse.

jgaunt

Tim, I guess a week to feel I was completely up to speed. But it only felt like an impediment for a day or two.
I had tried a thumb ball years ago - it was very comfortable and natural, just the thumb didn't cover enough screen in one movement... or else lose accuracy setting it faster.
There is not a huge range and some aren't as comfortable.
Choose one that your hand lays over rather than crank your wrist or reach hard for buttons - in the right place buttons are better than on a mouse.
Your arm still might take a long time to come good without some intervention.
My pain developed after 25 years and the combined strategies fixed it about 6 years ago.
It took 2 weeks of physio visits and still gets a bit sore occasionally, the exercises fix it quickly.
I like using stylus tablets too, but I find them too prone to accidental picks and movements.

Tom Foster

i strongly recommend https://www.ergonomics.co.uk/DXT-Ergonomic-Mouse. The forearm/elbow isn't used at all. The wrist is in neutral 'handshake' orientation. All movement is controlled by the agile precise finger muscles you use for handwriting - which allows high resolution i.e. very fast pointer movement but combined with high accuracy. Cured my pains completely.

Norbert Probst

Hi tom
Keeping your forearm completely rested on the desk is only
a part of the story. Adjusting your chair to a height at which
your elbow is at or nearly at 90 deg like a pianist is also recommended.
I also find that there is quite a lot of tension involved hovering your palm
over most conventional mice. Try padding the top to gently support your palm
with foam and tape and experiment. Often these things manifest further up the limb.
I still fondly remember my Kurta pad and "Puck".
Regards
Norb

Tom Foster

With https://www.ergonomics.co.uk/DXT-Ergonomic-Mouse my forearm, and hand down to and including little finger, stay rested on the desk. All movement is done by the other 3 fingers (and thumb) just like hand-writing. Hand not 'flat' (has to be held like that) but resting without effort in more vertical 'handshake' position. Try it.

spelunkerNZ

@Tom Foster said:
i strongly recommend https://www.ergonomics.co.uk/DXT-Ergonomic-Mouse. The forearm/elbow isn't used at all. The wrist is in neutral 'handshake' orientation. All movement is controlled by the agile precise finger muscles you use for handwriting - which allows high resolution i.e. very fast pointer movement but combined with high accuracy. Cured my pains completely.

@Tim Neumann said:
Yeah this has to be in the "Other" category. Been having pain in my outer elbow (tennis elbow???) but didn't know if this would be the result of CAD work for many years. Anyone else have this symptom? I thought wrist pain was usually the culprit but not having that. Anyhow I switched the mouse to the left hand (I'm a southpaw anyways) to see if it'll help. This will not be pretty.

Tim you best listen to Tom or say goodbye to all your favourite hand movements. I do the most intensive mouse and keyboard inputs there are pretty much, hours upon hours of gaming (bhop) and many long sessions. Sometimes my left hand can get a little sore, especially if the layout is on a poor angle.

For typing:
Keep your wrists HIGHER than the rest of your hand! (MOST IMPORTANT!)
Having them bent slightly backwards all the time is what does most of the damage while typing. Having your wrists flat on the desk is not what you want to do at all, don't be a fool! It will slowly get weaker and break! Unless your keyboard is counter-sunk around 50mm into the desk you will most likely regret it with long term usage. It feels different but much better when your fingers are pointing and reaching directly downward onto the keys rather than reaching over other keys. You can also see alot more as your hand is not obstructing the genral complection of the keyboard making it much easier for your eyes to deal with it making you type much faster and cleaner.
Just look at guitarists and pianists, (oh, im one of those). NOONE can play things like speed kills, yngwie malmsteen or paul gilbert style guitar without using specific (and difficult) techniques to minimise your pinky fingers impact and moved distance upon the fretboard durasticly, one could literally destroy their finger joint in a 4 minute solo. Computer keyboards though are not so bad, just keep your damned wrists up.

Mouse turning:
A slight inclination on the wrist is ok for mouse usage, aslong as your entire forearm + elbow is flat on the desk.
%99 of the time, even for games/programs that concist of non stop violent mouse spins resembling nothing but madness, your palm/under side of wrist stays put, doesnt move at all. Mine only moves ~20mm either side of neutral/centre mouse position. My sensitiviy doesn't feel ridiculously fast by any means, it can go from screen carner to screen corner in roughly 15mm distance with mouse acceleration turned off ( as it should be) (turn yours off if it isn't already). When you run out of room within your ~40mm diameter zone, you rapidly lift and move the mouse back over to the other side and carry on turning.

All of the mouse movent is done with your thumb on the left side of the mouse and your pinky and/or ring finger on the right side face of the mouse, just like hand writing where you keep your palm anchored untill the next word then you slide it foward and re-anchor. To get a sore hand from mouse turning you must be on a hell of a bad and sore wrist angle and/or using a stupidly low sensitivity and maybe spamming ALOT of clicks...

crpt2008

A lot of good comments on pointing devices, etc.
But one most important detail seems to be missing.
CHAIR. Not just the position/location, but also it's condition.

Many years ago while helping a colleague unload a few tools.
I just happen to lay a spirit level over my chair. Purely by chance.
Doing that noticed a tiny and I mean really tiny height difference (3/4 mm tops). From left to right.
Well short story, solved a few months of excruciating pains, neck, arm, wrist...
Make sure it's perfectly levelled even if It's new. Like in this case. ;-)