BIM windows

G.H. Mulder

hey,
Why can't i place a windows into a wall with multiple elements (wall is build off seperated walls)
the walls are separated because the exterier wall must have a differened size or shape then the interieur wall

a hole can made by solid extrude with option substract.
a window haven't has this option.
a window have his bim substraction. standard 1000mm, withs only be used on the wall that is been selected.

see attachment

is there somewhere a switch or option?
Or like in revit join option.

Greetings Gert

Roy Klein Gebbinck

I believe a wall should always be a single solid in BricsCAD BIM. If you want to change a ply of a cavity wall you should switch on the wall's 'Display composition' property and BimDrag the (virtual) faces of that ply.

Michael Mayer

Now I'm a little bit disappointed.
I was convinced the subtraction solid in Bricscad would cut through anything in
its way.

That wish comes from other BIM solutions where a Window can also be assigned
to one Wall only. And when you need to join different Wall Styles and reach the
limits you start to think about how much easier it would be by having 2 separate
Walls, Insulation + Structural, for your geometry - if Windows could only cut through more than 1 Object.

Roy Klein Gebbinck

I am not following BricsCAD BIM very closely (I have a V18 Platinum license only), but I think the _BimSuggest commands is there to make the joining of solids much easier, You should only have to create a complex joint once.

I have requesed this feature in the past (2 years ago):
SR66099: BIM: BIMINSERT and multi-solid walls
My conclusion is that Bricsys does not want to pursue this (right now?).

Louis_Verdonck

Dear Mr. Mayer
Please read about Compositions in the BricsCAD Help under User Guide / BIM / BIM Database / Compositions. If a wall is composed of multiple plies there is no need to create the plies yourself. The wall remains a single solid and applying a multi-ply composition divides the solid. Moreover, if you assign a different composition or if the thickness of a ply needs to be modified, you only need to edit the composition and run the BimUpdateThickness command: all solids having this composition will be updated automatically, no need to look them up yourself. This also solves your window issue: the subtractor cuts through all plies because it is a single solid.
Kind regards

Michael Mayer

Thanks Louis,
I knew this. Theoretically that's the way to go.
It is just that my clients design some funny wall joins where 3-4 Walls,
interior and exterior, of different thickness and number of plies meet
NEARLY at one point but not far away enough to not interfere.
That is where the other Apps joining reaches its limits even when
auto joining off. It would work with single ply walls.
That is a situation where it would be much easier when dividing in 2
separate walls, interior/structural vs insulation package, like it works
when building in reality.
Which is no option because of the Windows insertion.
(which also come too near to that problematic area)

So far I have not tested such extreme situations in Bricscad but am
confident that it has a bit more flexible joining by plies, or at least the
solid modeling will work for 1 ply walls.
So there should be no need for separating wall plies in Bricscad.

I just thought it would work that way, subtraction solid would cut through
everything in its way, which I thought is pretty cool.
But that is not a problem if not.

But the answer to the thread starter,
if you have different kind of walls, you create different compositions
(Wall Styles) for each.
For example,
if you have a 3 ply wall, 250 concrete + 180 insulation + 20 plaster and
you will need similar construction but 300 concrete, like for structural
reasons for some special walls,
you will duplicate the initial composition and extend the concrete ply
to 300 for that composition.

Louis_Verdonck

Dear Michael
As Roy already suggested, if 'Display Composition' = Yes, it is possible to connect plies from different solids and, moreover, if the same connection appears multiple times in the model, the BimSuggest command ananlyzes the model and suggests to apply the same connection there. See the BimSuggest command in the BricsCAD Help.
If you are not sure how solve a particular problem, do not hesitate to file a support request. Our analysts will be glad to help you out.
Regards
Louis

Louis_Verdonck

Dear Michael
You wrote
"...if you have a 3 ply wall, 250 concrete + 180 insulation + 20 plaster and
you will need similar construction but 300 concrete, like for structural
reasons for some special walls,
you will duplicate the initial composition and extend the concrete ply
to 300 for that composition."
Remember that a composition can have a variable thickness for 1 ply. If you need a series of walls concrete/isolation180/plaster20, then the concrete ply would be 250 mm in a 450 mm wall and 300 mm in a 500 mm wall.

Michael Mayer

Thanks Louis,
I'm on Mac (V17). BIMSuggest will be V18 only ?
Yes, no problem with Wall Connections vs Wall Connections by Ply here.

But if you mention BIMSuggest,
connecting walls one by one is very tedious.
Will BIMSuggest also work for standard Wall Connections,
so that I can direct model, manually connect one corner and then get
the checkboxes to "ok" some similar corners ?

Louis_Verdonck

The idea of BimSuggest is to automatically detect and apply similar connections in the model. Notice that what we have in V18 now is only a first example of 'Intelligent' modeling.

G.H. Mulder

let me ask it differly........maybe that will explain why i draw 2 walls
see attachment

So how can i make these walls with Compositions and place the window in both walls?

Michael Mayer

Oh, looks quite like a pretty special case.
So as there is no such option for Windows boolean body, I think
it ok that it needs some manual modeling.

Roy Klein Gebbinck

@G.H. Mulder:
Your case could be modeled as a single wall with an air gap as one of the plies. The fact that this wall has complex edges should not be a problem as BIM solids with complex edges would be the norm I suppose.

Possible alternatives:

1. _BimInsert a separate hole component in one of the solids.
2. _Union the 2 solids before using _BimInsert (this works for _BmInsert at least).
3. Use 4 solids: one for the thickest part of the construction and three separate thinner bits,

Louis_Verdonck

Dear Michael
See model in attachment: single multiply wall of which all plies have a different shape.

G.H. Mulder

now i understand it
thanks Louis