dmextrude default

Steven_g

Is it possible to change the default order of the Ctrl key cycling when it comes to certain commands, as in 'dmextrude' the default is 'auto', and by hitting the Ctrl key you can select create, subtract, unite etc. but the default 'auto' depends on the cursor position, it would be really handy to be able to have it set to default as 'create' and even better if I could also set the distance as a fixed value to accepted with enter. I could then pick a face with the mouse start the dmextrude command and hit enter twice to accept 'create' and "18", and once started then using the enter key to reperform the last command would also just keep repeating the dmextrude command.
I'm working my way through a 24 storey building and using dmextrude to add shuttering plywood (18mm) to every column, beam and wall inc. openings and having to use Ctrl, move the mouse in the correct direction and type 18 every time is not fun.

Michael Mayer

I even tend to blasphemy by saying I would prefer to have these
CMD/CTRL Options separated into individual Tools instead.
The Cutting Extrude Tool, the Union Extrude Tool, ...

And for keeping a previous value, I remember Microstation having had
the luxury of giving the last distance generally as a snap option AND
as a checkbox option. So that you even didn't need to care much about
your cursor rubber line distance but direction only.

Louis_Verdonck

Please notice that the 'Auto' behavior of DmExtrude depends on the value of the DMEXTRUDEMODE system variable. Lookup the variable in the Settings dialog.

Michael Mayer

I found that setting yesterday for the first time but don't quite get it.
It says : Set OFF to unite with.
By default for me it was OFF, but never united.
The Default I am used to Extrude working is that (from a Boundary)
it will always cut through other elements.

EDIT :
OK, get the setting now.

Extrude starts always in "Auto" Mode.
Auto Mode is controlled by these Settings.

Cut Through when extruded to the inside is very handy.

But I don't get Boolean Unite anyway in an Architectural sense.
If I extrude from an Objects Face > I want a new separate Object.
If I want to Unite = Extend the Face I would use the PushPull (or BIMDRAG)

And especially as Extrude Unions everything in its reach.
Extrude from a Wall Faces will likely degrade a few Walls + Slabs on top and
above into a clunky single Solid.
So I don't really see this as a potential default behavior.

Steven_g

I see no different behaviour, whether it is set as 0, 1, 2 or 3, the direction depends on where the mouse is located after clicking the extrude icon and will either add to or subtract from an existing solid depending on that direction, but won't 'create' a new solid without the use of the Ctrl key (or 'C' option).

Michael Mayer

DMEXTRUDEMOD Setting should help Steven_G though for
problem part 1.

In 3D Mesh Modeling there are 3 separate Tools.
Move :
just pulls a Face out stretching the connected Faces > like BC PushPull
Bevel :
pulls the Face out and creates new Faces between former connected
Faces and the Face > like BC Extrude Union
Extrude :
Which creates new Faces between former connected Faces and the Face and
duplicates and flips the original Face to get a complete new Object
like BC Extrude 2nd option

So I often see a "Bevel Mode" Option in CAD PushPull Tools to keep the
original seam lines, for later use.

Michael Mayer

For the "same value input" problem,
for Extrude it does not seem to work by setting previous input value
by RMB click - like it works for e.g. the Cube or Polysolid Tool.
(1st Point + Length + Width + RMB Click)

Steven_g

Actually it does work, but for some reason I get wierd behavior in the drawing I'm working on, the new solid is attaching itself to other 3D solids in the model. I'll have to see if I can figure out what is going on. So thank you for the tip. I had tried that earlier and it appeared not to work but going back after your suggestion and I spotted the problem.

Michael Mayer

@Steven_g said:
the new solid is attaching itself to other 3D solids in the model.

Is that my BIM DRAG experience ?
Like when you Extrude from a Wall, have separate Solids and try to pull
1 away but it stucks to the other ?
Where I realized that I need the standard Move Tool to get these apart again.

BTW pretty useful behavior.
like when having separate Solids for Wall Components or
separate Structural + Floor Slabs, ....

Hans De Backer

Possible alternative for DmExtrude:
hover a face, select the Thicken tool from the Quad, key in 18: a separate solid will be created.

Possible alternative to create shuttering for e.g. a column:
select its bottom face and pick the Offset tool from the Quad, key in 18 for the offset distance.
Start the polysolid command, set the Width to 18 (will be reused next time), select the (default) Entity option and pick the polyline created in the previous step.

Michael Mayer

@Hans De Backer said:
Possible alternative for DmExtrude:
hover a face, select the Thicken tool from the Quad, key in 18: a separate solid will be created.

Nice !

Possible alternative to create shuttering for e.g. a column:
select its bottom face and pick the Offset tool from the Quad, key in 18 for the offset distance.
Start the polysolid command, set the Width to 18 (will be reused next time), select the (default) Entity option and pick the polyline created in the previous step.

Did similar an hour ago
Shouldn't he type "9" in Offset Tool ?

As Polysolid for me defaults to "middle " justification

Steven_g

And repeatable, draw a solid, then copy it so you have two touching, extrude one creating a new solid and for some reason it is attached to the adjoining solid, not the one it was created from. I will send this into support with an attached drawing.

Hans De Backer

Polysolid will reuse the most-recently-used justification

Michael Mayer

Hans, you are right, it does for Polysolids Justification (reliably).

(I think that wasn't remembered in previous Mac Versions or
just because I was used the other behaviors from Extrude and such)

Steven_g

Hans, it is almost there, I tried thicken, and then created a toolpalette to automatically setup layer and 18 as thickness, and set it to repeat, and all was fine, but I have found a hicup, thicken only works with surfaces and not boundary detection so on an internal corner it produces an overlap at the corners. Which leaves me with a lot of cleanup. Having said that this method is still an improvement and I can then use the bimconnect tool to reform the corners both internal (remove the overlap) and external (fill the gap) which is a nice bonus, which brings up the next question is there a setting for the bimconnect dialogue so that it doesn't default to miter, if you where to try mitering shuttering on site you'd get shot

Hans De Backer

"if you were to try mitering shuttering on site you'd get shot "

Shot? If you're lucky, probably it would be worse ;-)

When we extended the polysolid command with the 'Separate solids' option we indeed didn't provide the possibility to select different connection types. I wonder how useful it would be if 'butting' or 'mitered' options would be offered: most likely 50% of the butting connections would need to be reworked anyway?

You might want to try switching off the 'Separate solids' option so a monolithic wrapper solid is created, and then apply the BIMSPLIT tool to that wrapper.

Steven_g

@Hans De Backer said:
I wonder how useful it would be if 'butting' or 'mitered' options would be offered: most likely 50% of the butting connections would need to be reworked anyway?

Ah but 50% might be OK and on 24 storey's 50% is a time saver. I only say maybe, it's actually working quite well and it's more a case of do one storey and then copy/paste. And I'm using the BIMSPLIT tool with with the results of 'shell' which is working great for 95% of the locations (SR for the other 5%)

Michael Mayer

@Hans De Backer said:

When we extended the polysolid command with the 'Separate solids' option we indeed didn't provide the possibility to select different connection types. I wonder how useful it would be if 'butting' or 'mitered' options would be offered: most likely 50% of the butting connections would need to be reworked anyway?

I don't quite understand that.
You mean connection types offered when "Separate Solids" OFF ?
To get better results for BIMSPLIT after ?

And I recently noticed for the first time that for butted connections,
when BIMDRAG, only 1 dragging one Wall will keep the connection.
While when dragging the Wall that buts to the other Walls large Side
Face, that Wall will not follow.
Only mitered connection will be kept in both directions.
Same for Slabs, if I put the Walls on top of it, when Wall Dragging, the
Slab will not follow.
That was pretty new to me.

(Happy to see that it will work in next LOD with Components when
Ply Overlapping create butted connections in all axes directions.

Pieter Clarysse

@Michael Mayer said:

And I recently noticed for the first time that for butted connections,
when BIMDRAG, only 1 dragging one Wall will keep the connection.
While when dragging the Wall that buts to the other Walls large Side
Face, that Wall will not follow.
Only mitered connection will be kept in both directions.
Same for Slabs, if I put the Walls on top of it, when Wall Dragging, the
Slab will not follow.
That was pretty new to me.

We're working on that as well..

Michael Mayer

I am again excited.
Although I realized that the current behavior could make sense in
some way and is maybe consistent.
(E.g. for Walls that touch in the middle and not at the end of another Wall)
Maybe it is a good idea to make the AI differ between Solids and
BIM Classified Solids (?)

When testing next LOD to see if overlapping outer Wall Ply will keep the
connections, that worked fine to link the Slab.
But I had problems keeping the Ply Connections together at Wall
connections when BIMDRAGging a Wall, especially where the outer Ply
extended the main Wall at the Slab, but not only there.