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Crashing

Is it just me or have any other people found V19 crashing for no particular reason?
I hardly ever had a problem in V18 but now with the new version it seems to happen a lot. I wont bother with support requests as it seems to crash for different things.
This is just a general question for the V19 users.

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Comments

  • RSWRSW
    edited December 2018

    Yes I experience random crashing as well, mostly when I am in 3D Mechanical using components or the selection modes to automatically recognize boundaries for extrusion or placing components on a surface plane. Once in a while it will suddenly crash. My guess is that it runs into problems determining the proper boundary or surface plane. The issue of sudden crashes happend for me in V18 as well as described above. I just haven't got time to sit down and document things properly, also because it is not predictable when it crashes.

    Are your crashes occurring in 2D, 3D or both?

  • It only happens in 3d.
    I assume there is a lot more number crunching happening in the 3d environment.

  • RSWRSW
    edited December 2018

    Yes, that is my suspicion as well, that it is a processing issue in the 3D environment, though it is way more likely to happen when the boundary selection detection is on in the selection modes toolbar or when using the mechanical workspace placing components or parts in an assembly/component with the DUCS (disabling DUCS does help to some extent but it doesn't prevent all crashes).

  • I do 3D only,
    (still testing only, no real work),
    and I am pretty pleased with v19 on Windows, for such an early release.
    I had only 1 crash at the first day.

    Coming from the Mac version,
    beside the latest v18 being reasonably stable, I was used to have 3-5 crashes
    per day, out of nothing. For completely different tasks, no matter if something
    easy or more complex.

  • I can confirm V19 crashes.
    I work a lot with Autocad (2019) files 2D/3D and my impression is also that V19 is crashing with files, in V18 never was an issue.
    I also have some opening time problems with V19, some files take forever to open.

  • i spent some time trying out 3d constraints and found that bricscad crashed on numerous occasions. Maybe there is a connection between constraints and bricscad not handling the computing required.

  • We only using Bricscad for 2d DWG's. In V18 I hardly had an issue but in V19 I, as well as my colleagues, notice random crashing. Nothing any of us can put a finger on concerning the cause because it happens in all kinds of circumstances. I say crashing because in general when we get the 'application has become unstable' there isn't much one can do except close it down, if it doesn't so itself, and restart.

    Oh, and we don't use constraints.

    afbeelding.png
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  • If folks think it has something to do with processing ability, that is either at the CPU or GPU level. The amount of RAM available to the app and the O/S also plays a part as 'thrashing' ruins performance.

    Why not start listing your CPU hardware and in particular its single threaded rating by referencing https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html . BricsCAD really only uses one thread at a time so the single threaded number associated with a CPU chip is the one to look at. The same site also has performance numbers for video boards.

    Having abandoned Windows 20 years ago, I'm not familiar with its current debug abilities. If possible, start a debug environment and run BricsCAD inside it to provide tech support with traces. That's the quickest way to get these random issues resolved.

  • I have most Multithreading Flags on in Bricscad Settings.
    So it is faster.
    (Not necessarily a good idea when having stability issues though,
    which I don't have)

    Generally for CAD and Gaming,
    looking for the best singlethread performance CPU over max Core count
    ist still a good idea.

  • @Michael Mayer

    Yes, certain things can be accomplished multi threaded, but the vast majority of all processing is going on single threaded. It's simply the nature of the CAD beast as there's little opportunity to multithread.

    You're not having issues, but others are. Why? What's the difference? That's why I suggest starting with the obvious, CPU horsepower, GPU horsepower, RAM that may be a bottleneck resulting in CPU/disk thrashing, O/S version and patch level, etc.

    I've had lots of crashes with V18 on Linux and I'm running a 30 day trial. I've filed several support incidents and have provided both O/S logs as well as debug traces. I do this as a former tech support manager and software developer. Simply providing anecdotal rumblings doesn't solve the problem because tech support has nothing concrete to go on.

    There are a few saying in the software industry.
    If you can't fix it feature it as an enhancement.
    The first year of production IS the last year of testing.

    Like it or not, the users are part of the software development effort.

  • in V19 I, as well as my colleagues, notice random crashing. Nothing any of us can put a finger on concerning the cause because it happens in all kinds of circumstances. I say crashing because in general when we get the 'application has become unstable' there isn't much one can do except close it down, if it doesn't so itself, and restart.

    That is also my experience for the Mac Version.
    Nothing for any useful SR. Not related to a special file.
    It can crash when opening a File, the next try it works like a charm.
    It can crash when idling in the Background. It can crash while closing.

    If it does these things more than every 20th attempt,
    you can SR, but not much more than sending the crash log.
    My Windows experience is totally smooth and snappy, no lags anywhere.

  • I have experienced several crashes.
    Updated the nvidia drivers and the frequency reduced dramatically (90%)

  • Here is a way to repeat the crash about 33% of the time:
    1)have a frozen layer
    2)have X-Ray visualization mode
    3)select a solid
    4)in the properties bar, click twice on Layer field
    5)select the frozen layer
    6)accept warning about entity going to invisible layer
    7)wait for the crash. Bricscad vanishes.

    It seems to help to do step 5 quickly after step 4, but I am not sure.
    It happens with this simple drawing "Frozen layer test.dwg"

    System details:
    "HP Bricscad details.png"
    "Radeon driver.png"

    dwg
    dwg
    Frozen layer test.dwg
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    HP Bricscad details.png
    852 x 521 - 36K
    Radeon driver.png
    769 x 660 - 48K
  • edited January 30

    Works for me here.
    1)have your frozen layer
    2)have X-Ray visualization mode
    3)select your solid
    4)in the properties bar, click twice on Layer field
    5)select the frozen "LayerToFreeze" layer

    (6) No Warning
    (I may have deactivated that Warning in my Settings in the past)

    (7) Solid immediately disappears from Screen
    (I still wait ... but I doubt that BC will crash or disappear in the near future)

    Nope,
    I can go on working at new Slabs,
    assign them to frozen Layer as I wish, like from Quad's Rollover Tips,
    they will just disappear from screen as they should.

  • Michael, Thanks for trying it.

    All,
    I also saw BC crash when moving a model mode dimension to a frozen layer.

  • BTW I have a 19.11.1-3 installed,
    which I found yesterday.

  • Hi Michael,
    Perhaps you mean 19.1.11-3-en_US(x64). That's what I get from download today. It seems to match what I have installed.
    Mine crashed some more today.

  • I did a lot of Geometry fixing, BIM-ming and organization things
    with a large file over days with the first v19,
    with only one crash.
    I now do only some 3D direct modeling and insertion tests.
    Without any crashes so far.

    Do you have any other kind of usage that you can see BC crashing
    more often specifically ?
    Or maybe weaker hardware ?

    Special Settings ?
    (multi-threadded on or special REDSDK settings ?)

    Do the crash logs offer anything useful, like always the same special
    BC Module ?

    I have an RTX 2070, although quite newish model I never had problems.
    NVidia drivers seem to be ok already.
    Beside, all pretty standard Ryzen, 32 GB non ECC Memory, NVme SSDs, ....

  • "... 19.1.11-3-en_US(x64). That's what I get from download today"
    My most recent download is 19.1.11-1, according to the filename in my downloads folder. In Help>About it simply reports 19.11.1. Release Notes also only says 19.11.1. Looks like Bricscad keep on issuing tiny updates (-1, -2, -3 etc) without making it worthy of a Release Note. I wonder what those tiny updates do?

  • The V19.1.11-1 and V19.1.11-3 installers contain the same BricsCAD executable.
    The difference is in the installer, like when some resource files were added or replaced, e.g. a new template drawing or some new components for the parts library.

  • edited February 1

    Same here.
    I ignored them in the past.
    But I think I read something like "our -2 fixed that installer problem"
    or similar. Since then I also re-check my download folder,
    re-download and install.

    Second digits for features,
    third digits for fixes,
    and -digits for smaller fixes ?

    EDIT
    Hans was faster and better ...

  • Michael,
    In my case, 'Here is a way to repeat the crash about 33% of the time',
    -Multi-Threading flags: 448, last three in list: direct modeling, assembly, sheet metal
    -Max threads: 0
    -no crash_log.txt on c: (where program files are) or "D:" (where data files are)

  • I had my second crash, on a larger model now.
    Severe exception ... bla bla

    Find no crash logs either

    I have multi 511 (all on)
    Max T = 0

  • 19 still crashing. Today when moving two dimensions and two lines to a frozen layer. I'm going to file a ticket. Was in Modeling Visual style. No crash log.

  • @Ian Johnson said:
    Is it just me or have any other people found V19 crashing for no particular reason?
    I hardly ever had a problem in V18 but now with the new version it seems to happen a lot. I wont bother with support requests as it seems to crash for different things.

    i've had the opposite experience. We installed V18 side by side with V17. V18 was so buggy and crashed so much I never used it. A couple weeks ago, we removed V18, and installed V19, hoping for better results. I left V17 installed just in case. V19 seems stable, although I have had some intermittent problems with associative unfolding (sheet metal), and some short term freezes. (I lose response to the mouse or keyboard for 15 to 30 seconds.) I have not complained to the support group about the freezes, because I can't replicate it.

  • My support request about 19 crashing got answered. In my case the crash was happening about 33% of the time when I moved an entity to a frozen layer with the properties panel. The work around is to turn off Property Preview. This is the 'eye' at the upper right of the properties panel. The fix is expected to be published with version 19.2.

  • YES! I am using v19.2 11-1 and it is still crashing. I primarily do 2d work and a little 3d. I have not been able to figure out a pattern to this yet.

  • Using v19.2 11-1, win 10 x64 and get ransom crashes when doing a Layer ThawAll. Also these are 2d drawings. I have submitted this as a bug report for 2 different versions of v19 along with the drawing in question, screen captures, dmp files, etc. and the replies from Bricsys are the are unable to reproduce this.

    Never happened with v18 and have lost so much work that I had to retrain myself to quicksave prior to to thawing layers.

  • yes, using Mac version 19.2.05 and getting numerous random and pretty frequent crashes. Working in 2D, with new drawings, nothing particularly special, large or complicated. I get no error messages, the program just disappears from the screen. Every crash seems to be while doing something different, like noting with leaders, changing the size of a viewport, or starting the dimension command. I haven't found anything that was consistent, so all I can do is save frequently so I don't lose too much work. Frustrating.

  • edited September 24

    Latest v19.2.18 Mac works pretty well for me here.
    Latest Windows, as expected, too.

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