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What is the logic behind Revit's data management ?

I got data from Revit.
I decided they should send me 3D DWGs.
(Maybe IFC would have been the better choice in this case)

It looked fine at first,
Only sub 30 Classes, lots of Materials came in.

But none of the Materials are applied to anything by Layer or Object.
Everything in Millions of Blocks.
When trying to estimate what will not be seen in Visualization and could be
deleted to optimize my ModelI, I realized that the few Classes weren't enough
to separate Elements.
E.g. a Layer for Curtain Wall Glazing, is also used for opaque Acoustic Panels.
(Not sure if that should have been just done differently in Revit ?)
I can't go into 400 Acoustic Panel Blocks to change their content's Layers ....

Everything comes in as a Block. But these are just Revit Families.
They aren't used in a Block in a Bricscad logic (edit one - edit all, save file size ....)
They can, but aren't always used to create many instance copies.
Often such Blocks appear only 1 time in the Model.

And even worse, there are also a lot of Block copies, that have the same content
and could be a single Symbol only. But no chance to find them. If they are really the
same - or just looked similar.

I don't get the Revit logic and Data Management.

You wouldn't create a Block in Bricscad for things that are used only one time.
Because you have to save a Symbol + 1 Instance Copy.
And especially if it's about those Blocks, that contain a single Solid only.

Comments

  • Beside that I have to find a better exchange for the future.

    Now it is a bit too late, but under such circumstances,
    my Bricscad v19 Strategy would be :

    • delete ALL Blocks but keep geometry in File
    • maybe delete Blocks in steps of similar parts to better separate Geometry
    • try to further separate Objects on Layers by filtering by colors if applicable
    • apply Materials and Attributes by Layers
    • select Solids that look like being used multiple times
    • run Blockify, to bring back Blocks where they make sense
  • @Michael Mayer said:
    You wouldn't create a Block in Bricscad for things that are used only one time.

    I don't know about Revit issues. But, in regards to single instance blocks, I often will create a single instance of a block to keep those objects together as one object. For instance, if I have a motor, all the sub-components of the motor must stay together, and if I want to move the motor, I need to only select one portion of it. if the block were fully exploded, then selecting it would be a lot more tedious.

    -joe

  • Isn't that what Groups are for in CAD.

    But if you want to re-use such things in a Library or in other files too,
    I think Blocks are quite ok though.

  • A group does not contain things like the model number of the motor.

    -Joe
  • Well, a group could just contain a piece of text or annotations.
    But I agree, you won.

    I know a VW user who attaches annotations like images, texts
    and whole PDFs of plan details to every object.
    Of course that is the multiple reuse case, so Symbols (Blocks).
    He even stores all his assets in a virtual 3D warehouse in shelfs.
    That is far better to read than tiny thumbnail previews.
    He flies around in 3D OpenGL View with his space navigator.
    Very impressing.

    I tried to group in Bricscad yesterday.
    I was happy that there came even a naming option. But neither I found
    that name anywhere again nor saw some grouping happening. Either
    I missed the Tools timing again, did something other wrong,
    or groups in Autodesk World work totally different.
    That would be an explanation, why users of Autodesk Products always
    put everything into Blocks ....

  • @Michael Mayer
    Group names are listed in the _Group dialog and, depending on the PICKSTYLE setting, the whole group will get selected if one of the its elements is selected. Basically a group is a stored selection set.

  • Thanks Roy.
    Yes, something must have gone wrong. My Group is not there.
    Will look into that.

  • When working with groups BKG_Group can be a handy tool.

  • So ACAD Groups are different from how I understand groups.

    A Group is a Container Object similar to a Block.
    It behaves like a single Object in the drawing.
    The Content is inside and you have to enter a similar Edit Mode.
    (Or just Un-Group and Group again)
    But opposed to a Block, only the one Group copy you edit will change.

    So I would call the ACAD Group better a "Saved Selection" like 3D Apps do.
    In that case I understand why ACAD users misuse their Blocks for grouping purposes.

    So to manage my import data,
    I should initially explode (or convert to group) every Block that is for
    a single Instance only. In my case that meant at least 80% of all Blocks.
    Very nice that Bricscad's Drawing Explorer shows Block usage and you
    can sort the list by Block usage.

    I found no standard way from Explorer,
    to delete Blocks - but keep the Geometry in the Drawing.

  • @Michael Mayer said:
    I found no standard way from Explorer,
    to delete Blocks - but keep the Geometry in the Drawing.

    I am not clear on the reason you need this. But, I imagine you can use the selection filter to choose all instances of the blocks with the name you want, and then explode them.

    -Joe

  • The Problem is the number of (single use) Blocks I got.
    I can see the number of Block usage in Explorer,
    I could sort them by use and delete them.

    So an option, "Delete - but explode all instances and keep in place"
    would be helpful in that case.

    I don't have anything against blocks in general.
    It is just that the few Layers from Revit were too less to separate
    geometry and assign materials just by Layer.
    Unfortunately all Material Assignments got lost in DWG.
    Also lots of Revit "Solids" didn't come over in perfect condition ....
    So I can't go into 400+ Blocks to repair all data individually.
    That is just too much effort.
    Therefore I have to explode ALL blocks.

    BTW
    After cleaning, repairing and custom Layer-ization ...
    I hoped for BLOCKIFY.
    It works very well for basic Solids like Cubes and Cylinders.
    Unfortunately it failed for any more complex Solids like Extrusion
    or thinks I booleaned together to circumference the "single Solid only"
    limit.
    (While I have no real clue what the rules are, when it accepts some of these
    more complex Solids, but not all their their siblings.
    Often it starts search, shows 196 elements, but doesn't bring the entry point
    prompt ....

  • @Michael Mayer said:
    BTW
    After cleaning, repairing and custom Layer-ization ...
    I hoped for BLOCKIFY.
    It works very well for basic Solids like Cubes and Cylinders.
    Unfortunately it failed for any more complex Solids like Extrusion
    or thinks I booleaned together to circumference the "single Solid only"
    limit.
    (While I have no real clue what the rules are, when it accepts some of these
    more complex Solids, but not all their their siblings.
    Often it starts search, shows 196 elements, but doesn't bring the entry point
    prompt ....

    Hi Michael,

    Is it possible to attach the file in which BLOCKIFY is not working correctly? It should work on all kinds of solids, not only "the simple ones" like cubes and cylinders.

    The insertion point is only asked when running BLOCKIFY on a selection set, not when using the "Find all groups" option.

    Kind regards,

    Wouter

  • Hi Wouter,

    I have to seriously test new v19.2 Blockify first.

    The insertion point is only asked when running BLOCKIFY on a selection set, not when using the "Find all groups" option.

    Thanks.

  • edited March 22

    @WouterNys said:

    Hi Michael,

    Is it possible to attach the file in which BLOCKIFY is not working correctly? It should work on all kinds of solids, not only "the simple ones" like cubes and cylinders.

    Ahm,
    Looks like I am not able to use Blockify.
    I don't get the right tool sequence,
    like when to select what and such and am overstrained by the whole
    20+ entry Prompt Panel.

    If I accidentally do it correct, I get an "Invalid Entity" Warning.

    Am I too silly to use it or is there really an issue with my imported
    Park Bench Test File ?

  • Ahm,
    in the Demo File there might not all Bench Legs and or Seats
    on their correct Layer.

    But even if I set correct Layers first for both Solid Types,
    somehow Blockyfy will not find all of the same Objects to create Blocks.
    At least for me,
    even when I select only 1 Solid for Blockify-ing.

  • edited March 22

    Sorry,
    here is the File, cleaned up and repaired again.

    There were also some other Attributes like Transparency or Line Weights
    different for the Bench Parts before.
    Noticed that as my Select Similar Settings caused also erratic Selections ...

    But will still not BLOCKIFY for me, as I would expect.

    dwg
    dwg
    D50_3D_2018_REDUCED_AND_REPAIRED.dwg
    853K
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