Should I install Windows 10 dual boot on my Ubuntu 18 LTS box

RoatanBill

As far as I'm aware, V19 isn't available yet on Linux. I'm going to purchase a license as soon as it's shipping.

However, I've had numerous issues on a trial of V18 on Ubuntu. In 3 weeks of fairly heavy use to try to learn how to use BricsCAD, having no AutoCAD experience, I'd say it has crashed at least 50 times on two different hardware platforms, one Nvidia the other Radeon. I have a QUADRO board arriving any day now and will see if things improve because I suspect at least some of the issues might be video board & driver related.

I'm certainly not switching to Windows for all my work, but I might install Windows 10 just for BricsCAD if you folks tell me that's a smart move given your experience and history with BricsCAD.

What say you?

Richard Webb

Well, for one guy's opinion given that we're entering the final year of MS support for Win7, a dual-boot system is how I intend to go forward.

Current setup is a Win7 Lenovo i7 notebook with Quadro 2000M video which works quite well with Brics. Once Win7 falls off the update cliff, the system drive will be swapped out to an eSATA housing and the notebook graced with the SUSE disk now in the eSATA. So Linux, LibreOffice, etc. for day to day stuff and boot to Win7 without plugging in the network for apps that still need/prefer Windows.

Not ideal but I have zero interest in Win10. Actively avoiding it, actually.

RoatanBill

@Richard Webb

Thank you for your insight.
Have you considered giving BricsCAD a try on native modern Linux? It sounds like you've been using BricsCAD on W7 for quite some time. What convinces you that W10 is the way to go today as opposed to giving BricsCAD on native Linux a trial run?

Michael Mayer

I'm coming from the Mac side and can confirm the stability issues.
Only the last version of v18, are what I would call stable.
Now I can really work with it in production.

I built a Windows 10 PC as I couldn't wait for BC v19 (Mac or Linux) too.
Bricscad Windows is another experience. Stable from the first release.
Also all my other 3D Pro Apps like Vectorworks, Cinema4D, Modo,
even my legacy Microstation and 3DSViz from 2008 run absolutely great
on Windows 10.
From the current Mac Hardware offer situation, Hardware Freedom is
great too.
But everything beside 3D Pro App usage in Windows is just pain for me.

I did a lot of Linux testing over the last year. Mainly on Parallels and
Virtual Box VMs, a bit of real installations on external SSDs or USB sticks.
Of course with access to real Hardware, I went with a dual Boot :
Windows 10,
my main Manjaro rolling release and
an ElementaryOS for testing.

Just keep in mind that a biannual Windows Upgrade (a new Installation in fact)
can easily destroy your Linux Grub Bootloader by deleting competing EFI partitions.
I tested this by 1809 upgrade and Windows did as expected.
Beside destroying my Linux EFI, Windows lost orientation about Partition Table
and therefore even destroyed itself.
Even I as a Linux beginner was able to repair my 2 Linux with Copy and Paste
from the internet into Terminal.
But I had to finally delete Linux anyway as Windows DVD hardly refused to install
anything before I deleted any Linux EFI on any of the local harddrives.

If that will happen again next time
(because I may forget to boot Windows directly from its own EFI partition
before an upgrade)
I will skip Windows and go Linux only on PC (+Mac)

Having a Windows only drive + switching off all Linux drives before a Windows upgrade may be another (safer?) option.

Meanwhile if feel much more familiar and save with Linux than Windows.
I have similar limitations in missing adequate peripheral Software,
less 3D Pro Software (Bricscad, Modo and Blender only) less input device
choice but so much less maintenance need and privacy issues.

I haven't tested Bricscad much on Linux so far, beside installation testing.
I don't want to risk my BC licenses when I lose a Linux (or Windows) Installation.
Therefore I do mainly Shape testing but it currently is Ubuntu only.
For me both looked as good as on Mac so far.
My BC test period is over a while so I will wait for a compatible Shape
version or new BC v19 Linux Test Period.

I personally think the future of Linux are rolling releases.
I had much more problems with these outdated stable LTS releases
Mint, Elementary, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, ... than with my current rolling
Manjaro KDE.
I was able to install Blender and Bricscad, Modo works fine after a bit of
tweaking.

I think Bricscad is working, or testing, with Snap or Flatpacks.
I am looking forward to it as it makes installation and maintenance easier
and may also improve BC Linux stability.
Beside that I hope that Bricscads Linux and Mac versions in the future
will be released together with the Windows version (Like Modo does)

RoatanBill

@Michael Mayer

I can tell that you're a CAD pro because of all the applications you mentioned I only recognized Microstation and Blender by name. I've never touched either.

I thought about installing 2 drives, one Windows and one Linux and using the BIOS to specify which is the boot volume. That way Windows won't mess up anything but itself. Drives are cheap.

I'm going to wait to purchase a BricsCAD license until a Linux version is released. My V18 Trial runs out in a few days and I hope that's long enough to test how the in bound Quadro video board affects stability. From what I read, that brand board is a CAD favorite.

I maintain about a dozen machines, all Linux with one laptop a dual boot with the Windows 10 that came with it. I used Fedora exclusively since Fedore Core 2 and they're up to 27 or 28 now. About a year ago I Installed Ubuntu when a video surveillance app wouldn't run under Fedora and Ubuntu was what the vendor would support. I'm switching all my boxes over to Ubuntu as I get the opportunity.

Thanks for the input.

Richard Webb

Oh, I may give Brics on Linux a try but there is a large component of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" involved. Are there > @RoatanBill said:

@Richard Webb

Thank you for your insight.
Have you considered giving BricsCAD a try on native modern Linux? It sounds like you've been using BricsCAD on W7 for quite some time. What convinces you that W10 is the way to go today as opposed to giving BricsCAD on native Linux a trial run?

Well, I've been rockin' with BricsCAD since V6, back in the XP days. I have the usual love like tolerate / hate annoyed relationship with MS Windows. Up through Win7 I can get an environment setup how I like it and it's a box I'm used to playing in. Win10 is a bridge too far, though.

Until now, there hasn't been a compelling reason to move to a Linux box as the primary environment. I've sampled distros off and on, even had a Red Hat subscription back before Fedora was launched. The eSATA currently has SUSE and Mint installs; either one is fine for normal day-to-day use. As far as BricsCAD goes, however, it seems to be happiest as a native MS Windows app.

RoatanBill

@Richard Webb
My reason for wanting to stay all Linux is largely convenience. I prefer to have only one box to house my personal stuff and have all of it available simultaneously. A dual boot arrangement or separate drives in one box that uses the BIOS to boot either O/S isn't as convenient.

I intend to run dual monitor (32" & 20") for CAD as my eyes tell me that's the way to go. I keep docs open on one and the drawing on the other. There's no room for another box and monitor/keyboard/mouse to provide access to the rest of my stuff.

I'm going to read up on or contact Bricsys about how they handle licensing. Do I get access to both Windows and Linux media so I can install on either environment? Can I start out on Linux and then switch to Windows if I can't tolerate the pain? What if I decide to swap to a new box with completely different hardware; how do I move the license? Because I live in the Caribbean, Internet access isn't rock solid. Does licensing involve communications? etc, etc, etc. I have till May to get answers.

Michael Mayer

If your demo ends and you need some further tests you can file a
Service Request and ask for another month of testing period.
That was what I did before buying Bricscad.

As for a weaker Mac Version.
For me it looked a bit like my SRs for Mac were mostly general Mac
specific issues that may never have worked well from the beginning.
Just so far no one used these features, noticed or filed SRs because
the user base was too small.
But they fixed already a lot.
So i think over time the Mac version will get better and more reliable
when bugs concentrate more and more on new feature implementation
only. No the complete Package.

Kind of a hen and egg problem.
The better the Software, the more users will come over, so the Software
gets better to attract more users ....

I think the same will happen with the Linux version.
If users are willing to report bugs, development will be faster.

Linux may have even less user base,
but maybe a more tech savvy user base and Linux doesn't have the same
compatibility loss annoyance with each version upgrade, like macOS.

RoatanBill

@Michael Mayer
During the trial I've filed several incidents with tech support, mostly involving crashes.

Michael Mayer

That is very good !

Currently not many crashes from my side recently.
Mac v18 meanwhile grew up, v19 testing is Windows only
and because of the license issues I have to wait for Shape's
compatibility on all Linux distributions.

A few Shape tests on Elementary (Ubuntu LTS Gnome) looked
so far but I have to many issues with old Ubuntu on new hardware
that it is not enough fun to spend more time there ....

RoatanBill

@Michael Mayer

If you have full BricsCAD, what would you need SHAPE for?

I thought SHAPE was a marketing teaser to get people hooked to sell BricsCAD. Do you get anything from SHAPE that you can't get from BricsCAD?

Michael Mayer

No

But it is "free"
So I can install and activate it on any test installation on any Machine or VM
without any risk. (And Bricsys is happy about the broad user base and large
number of Shape installations)
If Shape runs well without crashing, Bricscad likely will too.

Like I reactivated my old Mac Mini Server 2009 from its Time Machine only
usage as a holiday location machine. Shape showed that pretty quick that
the mobile 9400 GPU is already too old and weak to rotate a hand full of
Walls on a Slab in 3D.
So I don't even need to bother testing a full Bricscad on it.

Also the extra stress to not forget to deactivate your BC license again before
you leave a temporary location, to be able to activate it on another of the
2 allowed machine installations again somewhere else, is annoying me.

I already lost one of my 2 free license fail shots. Maybe because of a lost
Linux on VM, not sure, at least there was no more OS available anywhere
in my reach that would have the same machine key.
Another fail and you may need to ask and explain ...

So it would be a nice Bricscad companion when you get an unforeseen new
projects and don't have to immediately cancel your holidays because you
could already start examining and sorting files, start modeling,
before you come back to your Bricscad workstation.

My problem with CAD is that I hate everything Autocad non-standard behavior.
And Bricscad has at least some Settings options to milder that plus provides
some extra Tools to workaround a bit.
(ADDSELECT OFF, SNAPDRAG ON, DRAGSELECT Marquee ON, ....)
Shape's default on the other hand deactivated these options and provides full
Autodesk-ness in Essence. Which is fine for the target group but will scare
the rest of the world away from it.
So beside the wonderful 3D Direct Modeling and File Viewer capabilities,
Shape is more suitable for Autodesk Gourmets than me as a
standard's Gourmant.

RoatanBill

@Michael Mayer

There you go again with 'Gourmets' and 'Gourmant'; forcing me to show my ignorance by Googling both.

I hadn't thought about using SHAPE as a free viewer. I design my projects at a desk in air conditioned space. I cut steel and weld out of a 20' shipping container in Caribbean sunshine, heat and humidity.

I could possibly use an old box I don't really care about as my drawing viewer. That would obviate the need to run inside every so often to check on a dimension or view what I'm working on in 3D. Even though I design what I weld up, there are times when I can't remember what decision I made and have to refer back to the drawing. This is especially true If I've slept between design and steel cutting.

Right now it's rainy season where I am. Any design work I do will seem foreign to me in a month or two when I can go back to work. I could really use a viewer accessible from my 'steel' or 'wood' shipping containers.

Great idea!