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Windows, Doors in Block

Hi,
I created 2D Blocks for some apartments.
Then I added walls, slabs. After that, I created more details like doors and windows.
When I reopen the Blocks and want to change the Parameters from the e.g. Windows it is not possible.
It seems that all the parameters are locked.
Is this normal behaviour? is it not possible to change BIM Element parameters in an inserted Block after Block editing?
If I reopen the file, and edit the block, all the windows and door openings disappear. the Doors and windows are still there but they are not linked anymore to the walls,
and nonne of their parameters are visible or editable. using bimwindowupdate gives "Could not create feature for selected block.".
Is it possible to work with blocks and BIM elements?
How can I get back all the parameter settings for the windows and doors?
How can I replace this windows/doors?


doors andwindows when creating

after editing

and reopen

missing parameters

when creating

WD_01.JPG
676 x 487 - 38K
WD_04.JPG
247 x 793 - 65K
WD_02.JPG
744 x 509 - 50K
WD_03.JPG
643 x 473 - 38K
WD_05.JPG
246 x 803 - 67K

Comments

  • When I reopen the Blocks and want to change the Parameters from the e.g. Windows it is not possible.

    As far as I understand,
    You insert the objects but do not edit them in Block or Refedit Mode.
    You would either change the detailed Parameter values in Property Panel
    or with the Tool from the Quad where you can change basic Positions
    and Height/Width.
    In Shape v19 you can even do that from the Quad's RolloverTips.

    I think by editing the Components as Blocks you destroyed or corrupted them (?)
    Maybe you could try "Update".
    (there are a lot of Tools related to Components - those that look like "Lego Bricks")

    To change an inserted Component by another Component,
    you will also find a Tool ("Replace") in Quad (not very intuitive) but you can select
    either a Component already existing in the drawing, from a file or the library.
    (My Problem is that it will not keep the previous Components Dimensions)

    There are also lots of options to change inserted Library Components to
    local copy or in an external File to edit them.
    But I don't get the complicated logic behind so far.

  • edited June 19

    @Michael Mayer said:
    As far as I understand,
    You insert the objects but do not edit them in Block or Refedit Mode.
    You would either change the detailed Parameter values in Property Panel
    or with the Tool from the Quad where you can change basic Positions
    and Height/Width.
    In Shape v19 you can even do that from the Quad's RolloverTips.

    I insert the windows and doors in to the walls as needed in the block, but then I want to change them, position , width (normal editing)....
    so I open the block (refedit didn't work since 19.2.11-1) and want to change the parameters.

    Maybe you could try "Update".
    (there are a lot of Tools related to Components - those that look like "Lego Bricks")
    To change an inserted Component by another Component,
    you will also find a Tool ("Replace") in Quad (not very intuitive) but you can select
    either a Component already existing in the drawing, from a file or the library.
    (My Problem is that it will not keep the previous Components Dimensions)

    no none of them works, also the Replace don't appear, entering the commands will not change anything

    There are also lots of options to change inserted Library Components to
    local copy or in an external File to edit them.
    But I don't get the complicated logic behind so far.

    I work on an apartment building with different apartments.
    Each of this apartment is build as a block, so I can easily edit end rebuild all the equal apartments.
    So I have a setup for different apartments in the building and changing the position, or the width/height of one element, changes the whole building.


    I think by editing the Components as Blocks you destroyed or corrupted them (?)

    this is the experience I make. so it is not possible to build a block with BIM content that's working?
    editing the walls, slabs is working but the more complex elements don't work

    WD_06.JPG
    957 x 465 - 76K
    WD_07.JPG
    999 x 547 - 135K
  • Sorry,
    I did not really get what you do.

    You are using and editing Windows as usual.
    Just that your Walls are inside a Block ...

    Although I am used that inside Block Editing I always
    get warnings that this or that does not work inside
    Block Editing ....
    (Like Paste at original Position and all such things)

    I haven't tried Windows or insertion elements inside
    of Blocks so far ...

    But as I thought you would have edited your Components
    as Blocks, I tried that. And it really looks like it would corrupt
    components a bit.
    (Not sure, had strange BIM assignments also. Maybe I opened
    and saved that Test File from Shape before ...)

  • OK,
    my Experience :

    • I selected a complete Building Story, including 1 Window in a Wall.
    • I created a Block from it - without converting the source Solids itself to Block
    • The initial Geometry lost Window/Wall insertion after that step (!?)
    • The Window itself still exists.

    • The Block was created successfully in Drawing Expolorer

    • I inserted that Block into my Drawing - the Block includes a Window in Wall
    • I copied that Block
    • I edited a Block and inserted another Window and did some changes to it
    • Saved my Block Edits
    • all Block instances updated the Windows finefine

    • created another Block from Wall Stuff

    • copied it a few times
    • Edit Block and inserted some Windows
    • saved the Block
    • open Block Edit again
      > like you I am not able to change Windows Height/Widths again in Properties !

    But I can insert new Windows, which I can edit.
    save Block.
    Block Edit again.

    I can change some Window's Properties, while others ignore my input (!?)

  • edited June 19

    @Michael Mayer said:

    But I can insert new Windows, which I can edit.
    save Block.
    Block Edit again.

    yes this is also my experience, since I can create new Windows and Doors, I "get" what I want. But this workaround is time consuming. If I fully add all elements this will be a lot of work.

    another work around maybe, changing the blocks to Xrefs. but when inserting the Xrefs in to the file, then it would convert it also to a Block, so a data loss would happen ? I have to try.

    all my Blocks were created as 2D Blocks (no BIM-classifications), the BIM-elements were added later. Then I checked the BIM structure, and all of the "apartment-blocks" had different BIM Classifications, some of theme were Doors, other Slabs, and other Railings. I didn't assigned any BIM classifications to this Blocks at all.
    does your blocks also have random classifications?
    could it be that Bricscad recognize this "Blocks" as a BIM-elements ? so it should be a Building classification or something simmilar what is not defined.
    or it shouldn't have any classification. can I remove a BIM classification from an Object?

  • In my first file I had strange BIM classifications for my Windows.
    But not sure if they went corrupt by editing the Blocks or were
    strange already for other reasons.

    Yes, you can delete BIM Tags.

    And it is common to assign BIM Tags to Blocks,
    like a whole refrigerator or such.
    I had such Blocks, also containing Solids with BIM Tags inside.
    Haven’t noticed any problems so far.

    I am not sure if there is just a bug or we are using Components
    in a wrong way ?
    Worth a SR or someone from Bricscad explaining.

  • edited July 2

    @Michael Mayer said:
    In my first file I had strange BIM classifications for my Windows.
    But not sure if they went corrupt by editing the Blocks or were
    strange already for other reasons.

    Yes, you can delete BIM Tags.

    And it is common to assign BIM Tags to Blocks,
    like a whole refrigerator or such.
    I had such Blocks, also containing Solids with BIM Tags inside.
    Haven’t noticed any problems so far.

    I am not sure if there is just a bug or we are using Components
    in a wrong way ?
    Worth a SR or someone from Bricscad explaining.

    I figured it out :smile:
    If you edit the block and classify anything inside it will break the bim tag.
    At the same time if your brx layers are over the model it will also break tags.
    Also, if you generate blocks inside blocks you will get into broken tags.
    Be aware that curved faces are not recognized by bim tag. If you have a round model you need to insert a rectangular shape somewhere to be used by bim tag in the future.
    Otherwise, everything works, just classify the block object as window and bimtag will work just fine.

  • If you edit the block and classify anything inside it will break the bim tag.

    Not sure if that is a good idea.
    I think it would be useful if a Block with BIM Information contains
    Sub Elements or nested Blocks that have their own BIM information
    and so mandatory their own BIM Tags.
    I did not create such Blocks in Bricscad so far to test like you did.
    But I had no problems with such Blocks when imported from
    Vectorworks.

    I only experienced problems with VW "Groups" so far.
    (anonymous Blocks ?)
    These didn't export when having both, content and group,
    their own BIM Tags.
    And I still don't know if I should apply the Tag to the Group or the Content ....

  • @Michael Mayer said:

    If you edit the block and classify anything inside it will break the bim tag.

    Not sure if that is a good idea.
    I think it would be useful if a Block with BIM Information contains
    Sub Elements or nested Blocks that have their own BIM information
    and so mandatory their own BIM Tags.
    I did not create such Blocks in Bricscad so far to test like you did.
    But I had no problems with such Blocks when imported from
    Vectorworks.

    I only experienced problems with VW "Groups" so far.
    (anonymous Blocks ?)
    These didn't export when having both, content and group,
    their own BIM Tags.
    And I still don't know if I should apply the Tag to the Group or the Content ....

    I agree with you, that's a software limitation.
    The fact is that now when you call the name of the bim element with nested bim elements the code gets messed up with other nested names… :(
    If you see default bricscad bim Windows and doors they don't have nested bim classifications because bim tags wouldn't work that way.

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