DMSIMPLIFY Increasing the size of models?

Jim Canale

I run V20.2.09. (It is the last version to run under Windows 7. My employer won't upgrade my hardware or OS.) The support group has told me in the past that I should apply DMSIMPLIFY to models I import from vendor sources if I want them to load quicker or take up less file space. But my experience is that running DMSIMPLIFY increases the file size and the files don't load any faster. I've had files go from 8MB to over 20MB, but unfortunately I did not save that model. I have attached a much smaller file that increased in size after I "simplified" it.

The HELP information on the command doesn't really explain anything. Could it be that I have a DMSIMPLIFY option set incorrectly? I submitted a SR on this, but all they said was the problem MAY be fixed in a newer version and I should install a newer version.

norb1@bigpond.com

The DMSIMPLIFY command is not there to get around inadequate bosses.

Jim Canale

Hah! You're right, but I'm just a peon expected to perform nonetheless.

Michael Mayer

It depends on which geometry. 2D or 3D ?
If you have tessellated Mesh geometry, converting to Solids will not help.
It will just put the Solid overhead over the Mesh geometry from all vertices.
This may increase File size.
E.g. meshed Chair Legs wont get Solid Cylinders that way automatically.

Therefore SIMPLIFY will not help.
It can only delete unnecessary Edges between planar Faces.

If you are in 2D only, V22 ? OPTIMIZE will find Gaps and close or maybe
connect multiple linear line segments to a single line.
It will also help by arranging slightly different locations of nearly touching
lines by equaling their coordinates according to your set tolerance,
which may help to make a single Polyline from some off Lines.

My experience, mostly 3D only, from available manufacturer's Library Elements,
mostly available as pretty high detailed Mesh geometry only, Solid Conversion will
not help at all. basically it is much better overall, to just draw over from scratch.

(Unfortunately my clients usually think different, by being not shy to add detailed
Library Doors in Revit exports that have slight fillets that explode in IFC File Size .....)

Jim Canale

Thank you Mike. Recently I downloaded a vendor model of a stock 3 flute endmill, to modify it and order a custom from the same vendor. The file was huge and the mesh model had thousands of triangular facets. I assume that is what you mean by "tessellated". ESNAPS didn't work on the model. I couldn't make measurements. My attempts to make 2D views crashed the program. I finally used REGION and DMSTITCH in an attempt to turn it to a solid. It took a half hour for the commands to complete, but the file was huge and I still couldn't use snaps. What kind of program generates these meshes, and why is having thousands of triangular facets useful?

Michael Mayer

Jim Canale said:

What kind of program generates these meshes, and why is having thousands of triangular facets useful?

Not useful for you.
It is useful for the manufacturer that the CAD data is useless.
Such products are drawn in some Mechanical CAD Apps that would
be able to also export lossless Solid geometry - but then everybody
could copy their products too easily.

Also not useful for library elements is usually the fine resolution. But this
makes the model look as detailed and as good as the manufacturer intended
to look when rendered.

Typical 3DCC or Mesh Apps (3dsmax, maya, modo, cinema4D, ....)
use Mesh geometry as it is lightweight, as it does not need other data overhead
that a CAD has or high precision and it is suitable for Rendering or Gaming.
Mesh Apps are capable of dealing with single Mesh Objects that have millions
of Vertices/Polygons. But opposite to CAD, Mesh Apps do not like millions of
low Poly single Objects.

Jim Canale

So they get to say they post a solid model but no one can make use of it. I recall ordering a part for one of my test fixture designs that I couldn't even get mounting information for. The part was back-ordered but I wanted to get my assembly drilled and tapped to mount it. The manufacturer wouldn't help me. I asked how they expected customers to use their product, but they wouldn't release anything. I waited until I got it, and made extensive and accurate measurements of the entire part, not just the mounting. I modeled it and sent them a copy to see their reaction. They were upset. I told them they could've sent me the mounting information and their precious secrets would've been "preserved".

Getting back to the matter of reducing file size and complexity... So you don't think I should run DMSIMPLIFY on tessellated mesh models. Is there anything other than recreate the model from scratch that I can do?

Michael Mayer

^ Oooops

Jim Canale

Ooops?

ScottS

Jim Canale said:

So they get to say they post a solid model but no one can make use of it. I recall ordering a part for one of my test fixture designs that I couldn't even get mounting information for. The part was back-ordered but I wanted to get my assembly drilled and tapped to mount it. The manufacturer wouldn't help me. I asked how they expected customers to use their product, but they wouldn't release anything. I waited until I got it, and made extensive and accurate measurements of the entire part, not just the mounting. I modeled it and sent them a copy to see their reaction. They were upset. I told them they could've sent me the mounting information and their precious secrets would've been "preserved".

Getting back to the matter of reducing file size and complexity... So you don't think I should run DMSIMPLIFY on tessellated mesh models. Is there anything other than recreate the model from scratch that I can do?

Jim, your story made my day.

Check out Blender's decimate modifier to reduce the overall mesh, or sculpting tools (e.g., smooth) to simplify local areas. Blender is free and can export .dae format to BricsCAD.

Jim Canale

Glad i could help. I take it you have had similar irrational responses from vendors.
I'll check out Blender. I'm going to have to find a version compatible with Windows 7. Would the older version have the "decimate modifier"?

ScottS

I believe there are old versions that can run on Windows 7 even XP and have decimate, which has been around awhile, although improved over time.

Michael Mayer

I would have even expected that latest Blender would even likely
run on older Windows !?
But maybe the other way round is more likely.

Not sure about Win7 latest supported OpenGL Version or support
for Python version and such things.

I would not like to work with anything Blender under 2.8x

Jim Canale

Thanks Scott and Mike. I downloaded 2.92, which I believe was the last version to run under Windows 7, and will get the management to install it for me. (We're not given any administrator rights to our PC's.)
I will check back here when I have had a chance to see what Blender can do for me.