Inserted Components, Anonymous Blocks !? and "real" Blocks ....

Michael Mayer

I still do not get it .....


I have an IFC Import that looks good.
I have Doors and Windows in Walls and they show DYNDIMS to change positions.
Of course (I can edit their overall Dimensions in Properties but that gets ignored as)
they are no real Components and neither parametric.
Windows and Doors are listed as "Blocks" in Drawing Manager.

When trying to change/update these Doors or Windows (REFEDIT/BLOCKEDIT) these,
I had to realize, these are all "Anonymous Blocks" !?

Why is there no differentiation in Drawing Manager between "real" Blocks and that
crippled "anonymous" Block? things, which after 2 decades, I still do not get their meaning
or purpose of existing, at all.

Why at all, can't I even edit any content of an "anonymous" Block ?
What is a valid reason for this behavior ?


So I started to EXPLODE the "anonymous" Blocks of Doors and Windows and recreate
"real" Blocks from them.

Now I notice, although keeping the "BIM SUBTRACT" volume, I can't insert a "real" Block"
into a Wall as it was done with the "anonymous" Blocks before !?


So I went into the help files and tried to learn about and understand "Components and Insertion".
I learned that "Components are "named" Groups !?

What shall this be, a "named Group" ?
The anti matter of "anonymous Blocks" ?

Because you also can't edit/improve/upgrade these Components inside your File too,
like an anonymous Block ???

So far I see my only workaround to just cut my Wall's Openings manually by Direct Modeling
and explode(/destroy?) my IFC Windows/Doors and put them in Walls manually as Blocks (?)
This way i could update my Windows and Doors (and rework manually my openings)
in a controlled way.

(Given BC Components are far from my desired LOD or just only by parametrics,
my skills far from creatings my own custom (but parametric) Windows and Doors
I would like to have. I can't even see any non-tedious workflow to produce any dumb
non parametric separate individual Windows/Doors for each insertion use case)


Can somebody please enlighten me ?

Joe Dunfee

I agree. Anonymous blocks should be able to be filtered out in any list of blocks. And I also think, that if an anonymous block is deleted, its definition should automatically be purged from the drawing.

Michael Mayer

I searched for Anonymous Blocks again in WWW.
Looks like even Autodesk users do not really like them (?)

Looks like there are scripts or plugins that can "name" these,
so they will get editable by BEDIT or REFEDIT.


But so far it looks for me that you can not BIMINSERT (real) Blocks anyway (?).

My Anonymous Doors and Windows are inserted into Walls,
and they also show a Component "Tag" (?) in Properties.
As told in another thread I can switch these inserted anonymous Blocks to external,
save them in a Folder in my Project and edit them.

But I am not really sure because just switching these to external does not seem to
also replace the Insert - just save a file from it.
Then I can manually replace the insert by the external source.
But it looks like it may switch back to the Anonymous Block from the file, like when
re-opening the (crashed ?) File.
Also not sure how to update any Changes from the External File.

What I also wonder is, I added my local project's Component Sub Folder to Components,
but it will not show my external Component DWG(s) in BC Component Library Panel.

Michael Mayer

Joe Dunfee said:

Anonymous blocks should be able to be filtered out in any list of blocks. And I also think, that if an anonymous block is deleted, its definition should automatically be purged from the drawing.

I agree !

Jason Bourhill

BIM components are typically parametric, which means each inserted instance can be unique. BricsCAD manages parametric blocks by creating an anonymous block of the inserted instance with its unique values. This insert is linked to the defining block by its "Effective Name". If you want to modify the block definition, you need to edit the block with that effective name. Following editing, the linked insertions should update.

Anonymous blocks shouldn't show in listings, essentially they should be invisible to the user. If you're running an old version of BricsCAD, then there may have been a bug causing anonymous blocks to be listed.

Once deleted anonymous blocks are automatically purged from the drawing when it is next opened.

Regards,
Jason Bourhill
BricsCAD V23 Ultimate
CAD Concepts

Michael Mayer

Thanks for clarification, Jason.

> BIM components are typically parametric

Usually they are.
Like when provided by Bricscad.
Not in this case,
when coming in from IFC as dead Geometry.

But Bricscad will nevertheless handle these as Parametric Blocks,
therfore you mustn't edit them.


> BricsCAD manages parametric blocks by creating an anonymous block of the inserted instance with its unique values.

Similar to RVT imports in Vectorworks. They pack the Block in their
(parametric) Door Plugin so it looks like a Door. But you realize soon
that there isn't any useful parametrics. VW even forgets to read out
and adapt the default opening sizes to the Block.

AFAIK Bricscad reads out the opening sizes by bounding box.
And gives these 2 "Parameters" free to edit for the Insert.
But as in VW it will just alter the numbers but has no influence on
the Block - not even dumb scaling the Block.



> This insert is linked to the defining block by its "Effective Name"

> If you want to modify the block definition, you need to edit the block with that effective name. Following editing, the linked insertions should update.

But why are they so hidden.
Why don't these appear in the Drawing Manager under Blocks ?
(instead of the anonymous Blocks ?)

To edit I have to make them external one by one - I did
I saved them manually as DWGs in a Project's Subfolder "COMPONENTS"
(Offered already as Project Setting - but not created by Bricscad !?)
Now I can edit the Geometry - but without being able to see my context !

But, not sure why there is a Projects Component's Folder custom Naming
setting build in - when Bricscad does not create and/or ignores its content.
So I also added that "COMPONENTS" Folder to Bricscad Settings.
Only "globally" available which will not help with multiple Projects.

But Components Library Panel will still not show my "external" Components.
If I want to insert or replace other Insertions by my custom Components,
I have to select those from a strange (90ies UI/UX) Path Dialog Window manually,
which even uses Text contrasts that make it basically non legible.

(At least on Mac, where Text/Number input and/or highlighting is terribly
legible in many GUI cases, like DYNDIMS, Settings, ....
It may have to do with Bricscad vs OS, bright vs dark mode combinations
and OS highlight color choice - but I found none that would work as expected.
If it works in one Dialog, it may be worth in others)

Michael Mayer

Basically it is kind of OK to use user editing forbidden Anonymous Blocks
For repetitive BIM Objects - for an IFC Import.
As IFC is not thought to touch or edit external data provided provided
by IFC. You should use it like a Backdrop only, to adapt your own local
CAD design to it ...
But a) newer IFC format definition will include an official access/exchange
and b) we can edit other parts of IFC types, e.g. Walls, since years anyway.

If I got that right, per Autocad law, "Users" should never be bothered by
Anonymous Blocks.
(I personally think they should not even have any "Block" in their name)
These are for developers to create some peripheral custom Objects that
are irrelevant for users so that there is no wish to try to edit.

It is just that Users are able to create these Anonymous Blocks "accidentally"
when copy/pasting.
And beside redrawing, the only solution to get back access and control
over these ABs is by using any complex cryptical scripts that will finally
offer an option to give them a Name and an Insertion Origin so that they
get accessible by BEDIT/REVEDIT again ......

So I think these Users should not see or being confronted with ABs at all.
They should be hidden.

Michael Mayer

For the Component Insertion in Bricscad in general,
I would wish :

When inserting (even a Bricscad provided standard library) Component.
When there is a wish to edit (layers, colours, ...),
instead of the need to make/save it external,
offer a BEDIT/REVEDIT dialog option :
"If you really want to edit that Insertions parent Component you will need to :
- save it in your File as local data (will shown as a Block (?) in your DM's Block list)
- save it in your Project's Components (Sub)Folder
- reject/cancel or select + OK"

Similar as it works for Materials or Components.
And in a way that such "modified/modifiable Components will be of course
shown in the Components Panel (and are able to "create Thumbnails)

Michael Mayer

BTW,
Bricscad sees it as a feature that it works with the DWG File format.
(I personally never cared, would be totally fine with a lossless DWG Export)

Or even that all BIM features are integrated on top/in the DWG.

So far I have not heard of any other DWG based or DWG Importing-able
other App, that would have access to Bricscad's BIM data hidden in DWG.
Maybe also not intended.

So I personally wouldn't even mind if all non-DWG-standard stuff is stored
externally outside of the DWG in a Container File beside the DWG.
As I think it would allow more freedom for BIM features than trying to
press them in a File Format that was never intended or designed to
hold such things.
And maybe would allow different or more elegant solutions, other than
using/supporting "Anonymous Blocks".

Michael Mayer

Michael Mayer said:

T

But, not sure why there is a Projects Component's Folder custom Naming
setting build in - when Bricscad does not create and/or ignores its content.
So I also added that "COMPONENTS" Folder to Bricscad Settings.
Only "globally" available which will not help with multiple Projects.

But Components Library Panel will still not show my "external" Components.
(in V23 !)
If I want to insert or replace other Insertions by my custom Components,
I have to select those from a strange (90ies UI/UX) Path Dialog Window manually,
which even uses Text contrasts that make it basically non legible.

I tried adding the custom COMPONENTS Paths for fun in V22 now ....
and it works !
V22 shows my custom Components and will also create Thumbnails.

Michael Mayer

Michael Mayer said:

I tried adding the custom COMPONENTS Paths for fun in V22 now ....
and it works !
V22 shows my custom Components and will also create Thumbnails.

Tried in V23 again,
if I only try to pull up my custom Components Path on top over the default Component Path,
which may why V22 now shows my custom Components in Components Panel - V23 will just
evaporate from screen ....

I am very happy to have kept my V22 installation ....