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3D Modeling

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  • @PerGogstad said:
    With Revit in the background, the full BricsCAD BIM capabilities should be evaluated. Shape is more like SketchUp, but it is also a 'stripped down' version of BricsCAD BIM.

    I loved seeing the Demo Script. These are very, very done. As someone who also does Voice Over work, the person you use is very good. What I'm hoping for is a series which shows the commands and their options done more in-depth - of when and why you'd use them.

  • Hello @daveedwards

    First of all a big thanks for taking BricsCAD Shape out for a spin. The renders you posted in the Lumion thread are really nice, thanks for sharing them! Concerning the Shape tutorials, it's on the planning to update them to reflect behaviour introduced/changed in V19. We prioritized the BIM tutorials but we'll turn our attention shortly to updating Shape tutorials. I've also notified the documentation team about this thread and your findings, they'll take them to heart. We very much appreciate your time investment and feedback.

    kr
    Jan

  • The problem with Revit is that it was developed 20 years back with their own data structure, and more than 13,000 classes, I have been told. Later IFC has been introduced in Revit and the IFC mapping has not been good enough. I have also seen comments on duplicate fields in the Revit data structure. As the use of IFC increases, and the standard evolves (latest the standard for IFC Infrastructure was agreed) Autodesk must improve the IFC mapping in Revit. I also believe this has improved over the years, from what I hear in the market, and newer file versions and versions of Revit are working better with IFC than the older.

    BricsCAD BIM was initiated only a few years back, and the data structure is based on the openBIM/IFC standard. This means that IFC data exported from BricsCAD don't have the flaws you have seen in Revit. Based on this, companies are considering, for economic and practical reasons, moving the BIM workflow to BricsCAD BIM. On projects where a RVT files are part of the deliverables, they have one license of Revit, export the the BIM data from BricsCAD in IFC and import it to Revit. Then saving it is a RVT file. Many other applications, 4D and 5D BIM, on a construction project will also be based on import of IFC files, and using it as the standard for information exchange.

    So, you can use any design software that is IFC certified to create the data and use Revit (preferably latest version) to create the required RVT files. The link between these two will be the IFC file. I don't think anyone want to create a direct RVT import in their CAD software and be blamed for any 'inconsistencies' related to the Revit data structure.

  • @daveedwards said:
    of when and why you'd use them.

    That is the essential.

    After discussions with Vectorworks users, VW does this already in
    their "how to use a Tool" or short "new Feature" Videos.

    I think Bricscad's 1-2 minutes Tool's essential Videos have their
    value though.
    So I would be fine if those "why this way" and
    especially "why not this way, although it looks that obvious at first ....",
    happen ins some webinar like Videos - at a real world example,
    or in middle length Videos, specific to one or a few Tools.

    @Per,
    I think your last video was too fast for me.
    Even if not distracted by Subtitles.
    (It is hard to get all necessary little details that will make you succeed
    or fail later when you try to repeat. Like from which side the cursor
    approaches, if there happened a TAB or CTRL for options and such things)

  • @Michael Mayer - I understand that the shorter tutorial videos are better. This was just a supplement and you get a little bit more details on the left side of the script document. Did you have a look at the details in the document at the same time watching the video?

  • Per,
    I think I was misunderstood.
    I do love Webinar-like longer Tutorial Videos !
    (Which can show and explain whole Workflows)

    I just meant that the current short, compressed Tool Videos
    are fine and useful as they are.
    (Without showing all Features and Options of a Tool or
    Background where to use or better not use that specific Tool)

    Unfortunately I watched the Video without the Document.
    I only had a quick look at the script after downloading.
    I tried to watch it on the iPad in bed ...
    Yes, I see, very informative. Will read it more carefully.

  • edited February 11

    @Per Gogstad said:
    The problem with Revit is that it was developed 20 years back

    Revit can be a "unholy" mess and the stress of trying to manage it, my team and Government requirement basically ended my full-time 40 year career. Lack of unified modeling commands, complex workflows, no standard data exchange, kludges like "Shared Parameters" just to add tags, et al. It's the most unthoughout mess which has ever become "standard" in this industry.

    But concerning IFC and Revit, when imported you get this "shape" but can't be broken down into their proper components. Walls are not walls, rooms are not Rooms. I'm sure your own testing has shown the issue. I've reviewed so many other "BIM" systems (cough, cough) and they all are seeming to try to out-Revit Revit which I think is a mistake. Taking a different tact as BricsCAD clearly has done it important.

    I always hearken back to when SketchUp was released. Coming from the 3D Studio (Max) world is was a breath of fresh air. Simple concepts, simple commands and very few of them. Automatic creation of closed shapes just by drawing lines, not Box or Face commands. Inferencing to help visualize 3D from a 2D screen. Shape has that potential, but needs to a bit of streamlining and more focus on "lets start here" and not so much as BricsCAD BIM Lite (LT). I know the Shape is to lead people into the higher product, but I'm having trouble seeing that happening right now.

    SketchUp users are getting tired of Trimble and are looking elsewhere. Many are going to Blender, but even though free it's more of the 3ds Max confusion. I hope I can help in some small way.

  • Revit can be a "unholy" mess and the stress of trying to manage it

    I also tend to think more and more that Revit itself is a mess,
    as each data exchange with Revit clients is a special mess.
    And the data when finally came in looks also a bit messie :)

  • @Michael Mayer said:

    Revit can be a "unholy" mess and the stress of trying to manage it

    I also tend to think more and more that Revit itself is a mess,

    I work with Engineers that have special Dynamo files which strip out all but basics when they receive an architect's Revit file. So much for real-time collaboration.

  • @daveedwards said:

    @Per Gogstad said:
    When it comes to the BIM part, the best model exchange option is to use IFC.

    I hear this all the time, but doesn't work with Revit clients. They simply do not get the information they need in the resulting file.

    This could be down to the calibre of the Revit user (like any application, not all are equal) and whether they actually put the effort into investigating the IFC contents.

    In Revit, it is possible to build mapping files to translate IFC classes to Revit ones. Some effort involved, but once created future IFC imports should come through without issue.
    http://help.autodesk.com/view/RVT/2019/ENU/?guid=GUID-6EE1BE6E-12FF-4C61-A339-D97D772E7450

    Revit also has a similar option when exporting out to IFC, as discussed in this forum post
    https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/revit-mep-forum/asign-revit-categories-to-ifc-class-name/td-p/8405500?_ga=2.22980018.868274304.1549223024-1730153540.1536709532

    IMHO BricsCAD also needs a form of mapping file for IFC import.

    Regards,
    Jason Bourhill
    CAD Concepts


    Come to the Australasia BricsCAD Conference


  • @Jason Bourhill

    Thanks - I'll look into it. Most just want to press one button. "It's a Wall over there - why isn't it a Wall over here?"

  • Interesting - I hadn't ever seen the IFC import into Revit do anything but create one Object you really could use. I was able to get a Wall as a wall in Revit.

  • @Jason Bourhill said:

    This could be down to the calibre of the Revit user (like any application, not all are equal) and whether they actually put the effort into investigating the IFC contents.

    Yes, pity.
    A standard Revit draftsman may be overstrained with Revit's Exports
    and not very willing to open Export Dialog's Options.
    I didn't experienced much enthusiasm there so far ....

  • @Michael Mayer said:

    @Jason Bourhill said:

    This could be down to the calibre of the Revit user (like any application, not all are equal) and whether they actually put the effort into investigating the IFC contents.

    Yes, pity.
    A standard Revit draftsman may be overstrained with Revit's Exports
    and not very willing to open Export Dialog's Options.
    I didn't experienced much enthusiasm there so far ....

    A lot of them just default to "Why aren't you just using Revit???"

  • @daveedwards said:
    These tutorials are hurting the chances of BricsCAD Shape's success. I've been in the CAD/BIM for almost 40 years, have review over 300 CAD systems and these leave a lot of information out. I've been going through the "10 Minutes Webinar" and simply cannot get some of the steps to work.

    Hi Dave,

    I'm not a BRICSYS user, (yet) but am interested in BricsCAD-BIM, if we were to make a purchase. But will have to give Bricsys-Shape a test run when I've some spare time. I sort of agree though with your comments on their videos tutorials, none seem very structured & the focus on some WOW-tools (which is good) can be very confusing. It's often the case, the Marketing Dept. get too excited & the direction is lost & can be off putting as these tend to raise further questions.............."how-are-we-meant-to-draw" in BRICSCAD-BIM / SHAPE ?

    Therefore, it would be good to see some focus to cover most of the tools & processes further in a set of structured video tutorials based on a small residential property by creating the 3D model from start to finish for the final 2D design or construction plans extracted from the model. This is something we’d be very keen to see. Chief Architect covers this very well in their overview video set. See link below:-

    https://www.chiefarchitect.com/videos/overview/premier/

    Over & out,
    CJT1963.

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