@Joe Dunfee: Bricsys' current approach seems to be to provide that add-on module to subscribers if the customer asks for it. But it is not an automatic process, as it should be. -Joe
@Damian Harkin: An architect may not want the sheetmetal tools and a manufacturer of brackets may not want the bim tools. That's reasonable.
@Steffen Ahmad: You need to go for the super extreme ultra platinum deluxe version in the future to have all functions. Welcome AutoCad!
@Damian Harkin: An architect may not want the sheetmetal tools and a manufacturer of brackets may not want the bim tools. That's reasonable.
@Steven Cobden: I think a lot of customers using CAD software find it desirable to be able to rely on the software that they have purchased. Any suggestion that the software can no longer be used in the way that it currently is; whether that suggestion is actual or perceived, is a direct threat to the customer being able to put bread on their own table. Literally, many CAD users simply cannot make money when the software isn't being used. This thread shows that not only did Bricsys strip out a fundamental component of a premium license; even when the user reached out to support they were told they cannot continue using the features that they had paid for. Parting out pieces of the software without grandfathering existing licenses is going to very quickly trash Bricsys reputation in my opinion. What is the point of a user paying a yearly maintenance fee if a user no longer have access to the new features? I certainly expect that Bricsys would provide support when it comes to potential software bugs irregardless of whether a yearly fee is paid. If I paid to use a program then I expect that program will operate as advertised. So the yearly fee must be for the development of new features. If Bricsys intend to part out features without grandfathering existing license then they are going to look very similar to a lot of their competitors.
@Steven Cobden: This thread shows that not only did Bricsys strip out a fundamental component of a premium license; even when the user reached out to support they were told they cannot continue using the features that they had paid for.
@Jason Bourhill: This is simply not true. If Bricsys is guilty of anything, it is providing some rather muddled communication around these changes that can lead to this type of confusion. It certainly would be nice to have a roadmap from Bricsys that provides a general idea of where they are heading. I think when people have had the time to take a look and digest all the new features and options provided with V16, that they will find it a compelling choice at exceptional value. To clarify status for existing V15 users: BricsCAD licenses are permanent. If you have BricsCAD V15 Platinum, or any other version for that matter, you can carry on using it for as long as you wish. License, or Features don't stop working just because a new version has come out. For BricsCAD V15 Platinum on subscription. You are entitled to the Sheetmetal module for free, you simply have to raise a support request and it will be provided to you. I believe it has been done this way as not all existing Platinum users will be interested in sheetmetal. Please note there is a separate subscription for the Sheetmetal module, this is in addition to the base BricsCAD Platinum subscription, and would apply from the 2nd year on. For BricsCAD V15 Platinum license only. You can download V16 and trial the new Sheetmetal features now, if you like what you see, then you can choose to upgrade. I'm sure if you contact your local dealer or Bricsys, that you can work out a deal. At this point BricsCAD V16 Platinum + Sheetmetal + Communicator = 2,290 USD with All-In subscription. Remember this is for a permanent licence too. Many of the competitors will now only rent their software to you, and charge you this much and potentially a lot more on an annual basis for the privilege. Remember also that some of the functionality that comes with BricsCAD V16 is totally unique to Bricsys, you won't find it with a competitor Finally, the decision is totally your choice. Bricsys have always embraced this, and this is even more the case with V16. Upgrade, don't upgrade, go All-In, stick with using V14, the choice is your own to make. Regards, Jason Bourhill CAD Concepts
@Steven Cobden: Actually, it absolutely is true. It is lucky the OP posted in these forums. If it were me; I would have paid the extra dollars for the module to finish the job I was working on and then started talking to Bricsys competitors. Why? Because I bought the license as well as the annual yearly fee and I expect to receive the upgrade I damn well paid for. As they say in the retail game. For every customer that has complained, 10 others left the store dissatisfied without complaining. Like the entirety of my post actually states; if I were to buy a license and paid the annual fee then I expect to have *all* features that I purchased with the original license as well as any future upgrades. Parting out a fundamental part of the license (in this case the Sheetmetal part of the platinum license) and then not grandfathering *all* licenses that were bought with the annual fee will very quickly trash Bricsys reputation. As I said in my post; what would be the point of paying the annual fee if I only get an upgrade that doesn't include the features in the previous version? Thankfully, as you have pointed out, anyone with a subscription is entitled to the upgrade with all features. Also, I am calling it an annual fee. I cant remember what it is called on the invoice we receive. Some other vendors call it a maintenance or support or premium client fee but it is the same thing. I guess Bricsys call it a *subscription* which is rather confusing as the majority of software vendors call a *subscription* something that is a 12 month rent-the-program type deal. I have never heard of the annual fee being called a *subscription*. I also assumed that the majority of users have purchased the *subscription* when they purchased a permanent license.
@Tom Foster: Does all this apply to BIM as well as Sheet Metal? I bought v15 Platinum subscription and shortly afterward was upgraded to v16 ditto - and BIM is included.
@Tomas Polak: Hi, some people are too harsh on Bricsys. We can blame them for not communicating this change in advance, but calling them greedy is too much. This split is just a standard business procedure. The miscommunication is shame, because Bricsys' employees are otherwise really nice and very informative when communicating with their customers. It's good that Erik pointed out, that this same thing will happen to BIM module, probably in V17. Tomas
Time to say a word again I think.
Looking to it I see reality and I see perception - I don’t underestimate none of them.
The reality is that Bricsys delivers different flavors of its software and these flavors have different prices. As we deliver perpetual licenses, we describe what is in a certain license, the end-user can test that for 30 days and if he thinks the product is in line with what we say - or he just is satisfied with it - he buys the software and can use it for ever. That principle is not changed all of a sudden. If you want to work with extra sheet metal functionality there is an upgrade path available and it has a price, depending on what you have actually. If someone is on subscription (always on perpetual licenses) he will receive yearly updates and upgrades and if there is confusion or doubt about that we’ll solve it in favor of the user. I disagree with stating that we take away stuff from someone or stole something, …. . There is an upgrade path with a price. One can disagree with the price but that is almost the limit of different point of view I think.
But there is indeed also perception. Although in reality there are upgrade lines for everyone and for every flavor - by changing names we created different perceptions. We underestimated the perception that obviously some users consider sheet metal to be an “eternal” part of Platinum. It would have been different if we long enough upfront had said that sheet metal is a temporary free module available for Platinum and now as from V16 is a payable module. We probably would have avoided the 50 treads above this one and a lot of dust, disinformation and confusion.
In an earlier tread I have already said that we learned from this and I will very modestly repeat that this process was not the best we did and that we have to learn from it.
I sincerely want to apologize for it to everyone that is or was upset.
Fair to say that we immediately took action when we saw there was a serious communication problem. Early last week we have send a “sheet - metal - upgrade” proposal to all existing Platinum users with a special discount - just in case they want the extra’s of sheet metal.
Most probably we will deliver BIM next year as a separate module for the same reasons as described for sheet metal. But this time people will know it months upfront - indeed we learned. So for now BIM is a free module but with V17 that might change. In the coming weeks and months we will communicate very detailed about it.
In the future we will have this mechanism more. There are some very nice plans on the table to bring BricsCAD again some steps further than the competition.
There are also some clarifications needed.
1. With exception of BIM and sheet metal, is Platinum almost the same as Pro ??: definitely not and the difference gets bigger again. Platinum is the version with 3D constraints creation, with assembly modeling, design intent recognition and this year we added deformable modeling to it. Deformable modeling is an extra ACIS module that we pay for per user at Spatial Technologies. We consider it as an important generic functionality that can be used by everyone involved in 3D direct modeling and will be needed by many future vertical modules such as our BIM module. Therefor it is not separated. The extra price is calculated in the small upgrade price for platinum.
2. All-in suggests that this kind of license contains everything available ??: the term All-In exist in Bricsys for many years and has always been described very clearly in our e-store what it stands for. And if you go today in our new e-store you will find a complete description again. We use that term for many years and decided not to change that because most of the users have it and know what it means. If someone misunderstood, that is a pity and we are more than willing to explain to him. But this is not misleading if you read the description.
3. Communicator ??. Has always been an extra module and there is a good reason for it. This is again a licensed technology ( a very expensive one) that we pay per user because we don’t consider it to be generic and/or needed by the majority of our users. By making it available separately we avoid that we have to raise the generic price.
4. Is Bricsys greedy. This is an allegation that is easy to trow to us and a defense in words sounds hollow. Finally it is up to our users to judge. But I can explain what we do with the money we earn. For the last decade we spend year after year between 40 and 45 % of our total cost to R&D. All other companies have averages between 20 and 25%. It means that the profit we make is completely reinvested year after year to make better products and to be able to move faster than any other company. If it is true that we are successful than it is because we reinvest so much and that it is appreciated by our customers. Still we think that our prices vs. what we deliver are at the lower side of the line. Having an extreme lean organization without any "fat" in it helps also. We have invested all these years to develop an online support system that is - if I may say - one of the best and efficient ones in the industry and it is something we all are proud of and continu to improve and extend.
All the people in Bricsys try to do their utterly best to be transparent and to take care of its customers. And still we learn by the day. The hassle of last week made us become even more allert and careful because as said we made some mistakes - In good faith but that is not an excuse we want to use again. I take full responsibility for what happened.
At the end the only good marketing is an honest marketing: say what you do and do what you say. Not guaranteed we’ll make no other mistake - but we’ll do our best to avoid it.
Best regards, erik
@Erik De Keyser: ... For the last decade we spend year after year between 40 and 45 % of our total cost to R&D. ... It means that the profit we make is completely reinvested year after year to make better products and to be able to move faster than any other company. If it is true that we are successful than it is because we reinvest so much and that it is appreciated by our customers. ... Having an extreme lean organization without any "fat" in it helps also. We have invested all these years to develop an online support system that is - if I may say - one of the best and efficient ones in the industry and it is something we all are proud of and continu to improve and extend. ...
... For the last decade we spend year after year between 40 and 45 % of our total cost to R&D.
... It means that the profit we make is completely reinvested year after year to make better products and to be able to move faster than any other company. If it is true that we are successful than it is because we reinvest so much and that it is appreciated by our customers.
... Having an extreme lean organization without any "fat" in it helps also. We have invested all these years to develop an online support system that is - if I may say - one of the best and efficient ones in the industry and it is something we all are proud of and continu to improve and extend.
I would like to address a few questions with Bricsys that haven’t been fully discussed.. If sheet metal or BIM are not ready for prime time why where they ever marketed as platinum features in the first place? Why is it that now Bricsys is backtracking on sheet metal and BIM saying they are being offered (for a time) as a “free module” which “has not reached a final stage”? I think I know the answers but would welcome clarification from Bricsys... What I think Bricsys (and many other software companies) are clearly saying is “we can have our cake and eat it too.” The marketing goes something like this…. Advertise and market “features” like sheet metal and BIM as fully developed and integrated into platinum while knowing (but not advertising) that these “features” are really not fully developed (as disclosed in this forum). Once the customer purchases or upgrades to platinum they ultimately end up being (pay for) beta testers. Whereas beta testing used to be voluntary and users would test the software (for free). Under the current marketing scheme, you get the user to think they are receiving a “feature” when they are actually paying the company to beta test these not fully developed “features” simply to be spun off later for further revenue. The current (platinum) user, once aware, typically goes along with this scenario thinking that because they have a subscription they will either get the upgrade or be grandfathered in. In this case, Bricsys has offered the current module free to platinum users which in essence keeps them quiet and happy (for now). All is well, right? Here’s the rub…The potential customers are never the wiser to this scheme and it’s easier for the company do damage control with a vocal minority user base than market honestly in the first place. What is never publicly disclosed upfront is that any of this is being done. The potential customer never knows that they are actually purchasing a “work in progress” or beta “feature”. The above marketing scheme is never disclosed in the marketing material. In fact, it's the opposite, these “modules” are being sold as fully developed “features” paid for by purchasing the platinum product. This (deceptive) marketing not only leads to more future revenue for the company but is a slick way to get current users to pay for beta testing. This is how Bricsys “can have their cake and eat it too…”If this is not the case, then why not market sheet metal or BIM as “not ready” in the first place? (It is only stated after the fact that these features are not fully developed but undisclosed in the marketing of those features)Why not disclose in the marketing material that these are items are intended to be future “stand alone” (pay for separately) modules? It seems to me that the answers to the above questions are self-evident when the above marketing scenario is applied…I would suggest a better approach (for the potential and current customer) would be to either offer sheet metal and BIM as truly free test modules for beta testing (instead of pay for) or disclose that they are a part of platinum and “not ready”, “beta” features with a disclosure upfront that these would be add-on upgrades later once fully developed.One more point. I realize this post may come across as harsh but this is how I see it and it leaves me very disappointed with this current Bricsys business model. I am going through a somewhat similar scenario with an arch-vis software company which has continued to overstep and offer “features” only to justify the next software version and raise the price of a “not ready” software package. While Bricsys is far better as a to company to deal with (with a better product), they are adopting a similar marketing strategy which I think will backfire on them unless reversed.In light of the above, I will say that I am VERY happy with the software that I have purchased from Bricsys. I am a current Pro / “all-in” user who would love to utilize BIM. I was very seriously considering an upgrade to platinum but it is unlikely I will do so now. I would love to utilize BIM in the future but also realize it is not (yet) capable of doing what I’d need it to do. Unfortunately, in the future I don’t think I’ll be willing to pay for the double upgrade to both platinum and a separate BIM module.
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