Sheet metal and BIM development separated from BricsCAD?
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I think all the concerns have been properly addressed. All software goes through a gradual addition and changes to features over its lifetime. I don't think the "beta" features were properly called that on this forum. They added features that were described in the feature list, and were free to tryout during the 30-day trial period. The fact that they add more features to that part of the program in the future, does not mean the original offering of the features was in any way improper or a marketing deception.As features are added, it is not impropler for a company to make the software more expensive. Bricsys could have not split out the sheet metal module, and simply raised the price of the entire package. They chose to make it separate. Those who buy upgrades, like myself, will either decide the combined cost of the BriscCAD with the sheet metal module is worth the cost of upgrading the base package plus purchase the sheet metal module, or they will decide the sheet metal module is not worth the cost for them.Bricsys is acting properly to choose what features to add, or remove, from a future release. I think the only valid area of contention was for the subscribers. Since they pre-pay for the upgrades, it is improper to require them to make a special request to have the upgrades they paid for. But, that has been addressed, since all subscribers have been offered the upgrades to the sheet metal module. Yes, they will have to pay a separate subscription to keep the sheet metal module up to date in the future. But, they are now enjoying a larger feature set, and so they have to pay for that.So, if an announced new feature is attractive to you, then give it a test drive, and if it works well enough for you, then the upgrade fee has been earned. If not, pass it by, or go to another vendor if you feel they will offer a better value. This is how the free market works and the process is not in any way improper.-Joe
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As I said, my response may come across as a bit harsh and I agree that Bricsys has never referred to sheet metal or BIM features as “beta”. Those were my (pointed) words.
What Bricsys has stated on this forum (after the fact) is that the functions were “not fully developed” (or the like) and now that they are “fully developed” they are now referred to as “modules” to be spun off to “vertical” markets (without lowering the price of platinum).
I’m not expecting Bricsys to ever offer these or other features as add-ons. In fact, I think they should have done that from the get go with both sheet metal and BIM…
As a Pro user, I haven’t upgraded to platinum yet because I really didn’t feel it was worth the extra $$$ to purchase features I wasn’t going to use anyway (i.e. sheet metal / 3d constraints). Although BIM is of serious interest to me I have understood that it is not fully developed so I haven’t upgraded. This is one of the reasons I carry an “all-in” subscription. I could always look forward to the next version of the software and upgrade when BIM was further along.
With V16, Bricsys has changed the model (without lowering the price of Platinum) so now users like myself are looking at two upgrades plus the subscription. This spin-off may now be a better model for Bricsys to target “vertical” markets but it does little for those users (like myself) who will be forced into a double upgrade path.
Unfortunately, the marketing path being taken by Bricsys with V16 is seen (by me) to simply maximize profits (which is not a bad thing) but there are more viable alternatives which can both maximize profits and keep loyal users happy. Bricsys shouldn’t be surprised when users like me jump ship if forced into a double upgrade path which didn’t exist before.
Perhaps an alternate approach could be to bundle platinum with a choice of either sheet metal or BIM as these are pretty much different markets anyway. Or to offer BIM or sheet metal as an add on to Pro as well (if this is possible) without forcing the Pro user to upgrade twice.
I am willing to pay more for features I use but if this is the path I’m forced into I likely won’t do so.
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Absolutely agree Christopher !0
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With V16, Bricsys has changed the model (without lowering the price of Platinum) so now users like myself are looking at two upgrades plus the subscription.
I don't think that lowering the price is necessarily a valid expectation. Inflation affects everything so holding a price the same, is essentially the same as reducing the price. Or the price may raise, but not as much as it might have. If a software company (and the country where they reside) is efficient and smart, they can add value with less cost than their competition. Then they can choose to either increase profits, or increase their market share by lowering the price, or some combination of both.
Also, I think that BricsCAD and the Sheet Metal module are separate is not an issue. Yes, the cost of owning them both is more, but that is exactly the same as the issue of raising vs. not raising the prices. Either a product is worth its purchase price, or it is not. In the future, expect the base price for the BricsCAD and subscription costs to be higher, as it is for virtually everything.
-Joe
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Joe
Respectfully, price is not my only concern, although it is a factor. I have been one of the biggest advocates of Bricsys, they had an excellent and fair business model and I have no issues with the product I have purchased thus far. I purchased pro along with the subscription at a fair price and would still advocate Pro as a far better alternative to base AutoCad.
That said, the other major factor in choosing Bricsys over there competitors was the flexibility they afforded me (until now) with a perpetual license and a fair upgrade path once features were developed that I could justify purchasing (i.e. platinum). This was an excellent model which I think went unmatched by any of the competition.
Unfortunately, I see this as no longer being the case. For me, the value of the subscription / upgrade path from Pro in order to get BIM is no longer worth the cost in its current, revised form. I have outlined ideas which I think would bring Bricsys back to being the value it once was without sacrificing a fair profit but I don’t expect my opinions will change anything.
Many users have little use for platimum (as it was or is now offered) and only want a path to either the sheet metal or BIM features (once fully developed). I thought I had a fair path in purchasing Pro with the subscription with the future intention of upgrading.
I’d gladly pay more $$$ for true BIM but forcing me to buy a reduced feature platinum version which I have no use for in order to also purchase the BIM module is no longer a fair proposition in my eyes. This is the change in Bricsys that I am unhappy with and I don’t think it is in keeping with the flexibility originally offered. So, again this is not all about price… It’s about being forced into paying for things I don’t want or need in order to get a feature that I do want (which happened to be included before).
I hope Bricsys will address these concerns and consider alternatives…
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Hi Christopher,"That said, the other major factor in choosing Bricsys over there competitors was the flexibility they afforded me (until now) with a perpetual license and a fair upgrade path once features were developed that I could justify purchasing (i.e. platinum)."Honestly, I really don't think we changed anything to this. All our licenses (also the Sheet Metal licenses for instance) are perpetual and every user decides if and when to upgrade or move to a higher edition (e.g. Platinum). Also the decision to add yes or no 'All-In Subscription' (our Subscription, which shouldn't be confused with a kind of renting model) is fully up to the user, we are not forcing anyone. Of course, there is value in being on Subscription: you get automatically access to the new release as long as you're on Subscription + we give priority support to our Subscription users. If you're not on Subscription, you will still get support (response times may be a bit longer though) + you can still upgrade (at an upgrade cost of course) whenever you like, at the moment you feel it makes sense to spend the extra money. If one thinks the functionality and improvements offered in the new version are not worth the upgrade money, then a user can simply stick to the version he/she was using, if needed for ever. But we strongly believe our upgrade paths are still fair.Best regards,mark0
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Hi Christopher,"That said, the other major factor in choosing Bricsys over there competitors was the flexibility they afforded me (until now) with a perpetual license and a fair upgrade path once features were developed that I could justify purchasing (i.e. platinum)."Honestly, I really don't think we changed anything to this. All our licenses (also the Sheet Metal licenses for instance) are perpetual and every user decides if and when to upgrade or move to a higher edition (e.g. Platinum). Also the decision to add yes or no 'All-In Subscription' (our Subscription, which shouldn't be confused with a kind of renting model) is fully up to the user, we are not forcing anyone. Of course, there is value in being on Subscription: you get automatically access to the new release as long as you're on Subscription + we give priority support to our Subscription users. If you're not on Subscription, you will still get support (response times may be a bit longer though) + you can still upgrade (at an upgrade cost of course) whenever you like, at the moment you feel it makes sense to spend the extra money. If one thinks the functionality and improvements offered in the new version are not worth the upgrade money, then a user can simply stick to the version he/she was using, if needed for ever. But we strongly believe our upgrade paths are still fair.
Best regards,mark
Mark
Please go back and re-read all of what I have said in full context. I think Ive explained myself and my concerns very well and you can choose to address those concerns or gloss over them as you are doing. You can see full well I'm not saying your literally forcing me to do anything!
Yes - I have the choice to upgrade as I wish and yes you have / are changing that upgrade path.
Am I correct that In the future, as a Pro user, if I want the BIM features I will have to purchase both Platinum and BIM?
I believe as strongly as you that this new upgrade path is not fair for all the reasons I have stated.
It is your choice to address those concerns...0 -
Am I correct that In the future, as a Pro user, if I want the BIM features I will have to purchase both Platinum and BIM?Hello Christopher,For contribution on this subject, I'd say that BIM is being developed on top of Platinum for reasons that it shares resources that only Platinum edition can provide, like 3d restrictions, assembly modeling, deformable modeling, and may be others.Just my two cents!Miguel0
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Miguel is right. When we BIMINSERT a window or door into a wall, it's effectively a parametric component in an assembly - we can resize it after placement and the hole in the wall conforms. The window is constrained to stay aligned to the face of the wall when the wall is moved. So BIM absolutely relies on geometric constraints and parameters which are only in Platinum.0
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Thank You Miguel and Damian for the clarification...
This was why I asked if it was possible in the future to offer BIM as a direct upgrade to Pro without platinum. This info seems to answer that question...
To all (Bricsys included)
Regarding my situation as a Pro "all-in" user... My all-in subscription runs out in a few weeks. I will be renewing it. I have also decided to purchase the upgrade to platinum with the understanding that BIM will be spun off in some later version. As a platinum subscription user, when BIM is spun off, I will be in the same situation as the current platinum subscribers (whom Bricsys has treated fairly).
While I do have concerns, I have voiced them and will let Bricsys iron them out as they see fit.
Regardless, I still have every confidence in the products they offer.
Chris0
