SLOW and kind of has a mind of it's own

Marko Klemenčič

 So i bought Bricscad. I use Classic. As a landscape architect, i'm the old school, drawing just in 2d. There is no need for more now. I used autocad for 9 years. It seemed that Bricscad can handle it. Can it?

To the problem:
After a while of use drawings become somewhat heavy for the laptop - It is an old hp workstation laptop (8730w, not that it matters), but has quadro GPU in it and should be enough for these couple of polylines

It all works fine and drawing with Bricscad usualy is perfect, enormous joy. Then, one phonecall, 25min later, no one touched anything, i get on the machine and it stutters to copy and paste, to draw a polyline... Task manager shows 50% cpu usage... I didn't knew copy-pasting a rectangle can take 2 minutes. First two it did... Now it still works on doing that while i write this. And yes, i purged the drawing, not that it should do that on a simple 1000m2 landscape plan... Not even hatched that heavy... Really? Shit! And the word is in order here.

Saved as.

Created a 6mb file out of 1.6 mb file. I did add 6 treeblocks, so that.. could be the reason?? 6 blocks of trees?? Really? ARE U FUCKING KIDDING ME?!?!!

other thing, solved, but if one has time and knowledge, enlighten me please;
I have also installed Qscape. Kind of a great thing. The addon works fine, but Bricscad... This software is so intelligent, so intuitive, that after a day it decided i don't need that handy popup that emerges when u hold on the object. It is the main point of bricscad workflow..! i made a new user profile to get it back as forum suggested as the only option. So i JUST needed to set a FEW thing over. No biggie, right? That's what we do, we set the things up all day to we can set them up two days later. Who doesen't love that?
And i am talking about the disappeared popup that pops up to do quick commands.. Don't know how it is called, as i struggle to find a propper manual and description of workspace for this software just to complain about what the hell disapeared. So, if one would tell me what command toggles this popup, that would be great.

As of groups - will have to get used to using pickstyle command. I guess.

It copied the third rectangle! Great. i can go copy next one now...

It works... It works if one has a CAD drawing hobby but it does not work if one has to make living out of it. Or is one retired and has nothing better to do. Or... i don't know, has 500€ extra to support a bunch of guys selling alternative to autocad.. Or something.

Added a second screenshot just to clear out, that it takes 20 minutes and counting to copy-paste a rectangle...

Regards,

Marko

p.s.: As i am new to it, i experimentaly use trial version on a laptop until it trials out and used a license on a workstation machine in a studio. So this is why trial is shown on screenshot printscreen. Just to be clear.

p.s.: i will not post to bugs reports. Everyone should see this. Maybe before buying.

benjamin schlanz

I have a similiar problem since 2 days only, with v16. i just made support request. lets see if they find anything that helps.

Hans De Backer

Hello Marko,

we understand that you are upset after experiencing this extremely slow copy behavior with a problem drawing, and we are prepared and ready to help you out the moment you decide you want to allow us to help you, and file a support request to which the problem drawing is attached.

Kind regards,
Hans De Backer
Head of development
Bricsys

Roy Klein Gebbinck

@Marko:

Regarding the large file size:
Maybe one of these problems is affecting your drawing:
DGN Linetype bloat
2 constraints bloat

Regarding the lack of a proper manual:
Much of the information you seek can be found by simply consulting the Help files or by watching some of the videos.
It seems you have somehow disabled the Quad. Just click on 'Quad' in the Status Bar to switch it on again.

Joe Dunfee

 Personally, I have always found the manuals on BricsCAD to be weak.  But, I cut my teeth on AutoCAD manuals from version 10.  Since that era, it seems that most software companies have touted the intuitive nature of their software, and then decided to let the quality of the manuals slip, sometimes quite significantly. 

A few months ago, I had to ask for a refund on some video editing software that had skimped on the manuals to such an extent, that the software was unusable. I don't actually know the current quality of AutoCAD manuals.  And even when software manuals were quite thorough, you still often went to a 3rd party book to help with some topics.  Complex programs are, by nature, very demanding on its need for good documentation.

-Joe

Dan Wiseman

 Hi Marko,

Thank you for the kind words regarding our Qscape Landscape Add-On, but so sorry to read about your issues with BricsCAD.

Please rest assurred BricsCAD is a really solid piece of kit.  We don't just market Qscape to others, we use it ourselves for production landscape work inconjuction with BricsCAD. Often big schemes too - over 200 plot housing developments, many thousands of m2, front gardens through to big public open spaces, tree belts and play areas, multiple layouts, viewports etc.  We do this on an HP laptop, 4 years old, CPU i5-2540M, 8GB RAM.  We have customers who do similar, running several seats of BricsCAD and are delighted with it.  

Incidentally, we own AutoCAD too. We haven't used it for production in years. We simply find BricsCAD the better product. The price is irrelevant.

As others have mentioned, I suspect something is in the .dwg file. Probabably from a base layout originally generated from a non AutoCAD/BricsCAD software. Who knows AutoCAD might not have liked it either!  Anyway if Audit and Purging doesn't fix it the issue, or updating to the latest version of BricsCAD V17, then the drawing should be submitted to Bricsys for analysis. 

In the meantime there is another cool trick for problematic drawings. Type "wblock" then select "entire drawing".  Then use the newly generated drawing.  Its similar to copying and pasting the entities into a new drawing and like with AutoCAD miraculously cures a multitude of ills.  (Generally, though if you are using the latest BricsCAD, it would be rare you would need this).

Regarding the missing popup, if its not the "Quad", mentioned by others.  Its possibly the "promptmenu" setting you're looking for?  Handy video by Ralph Grabowski below:

Good Luck!

Dan

Marko Klemenčič

 @Dan: I now it's great and a very solid piece of software. As said, it's a joy to work with. Mostly In example, everything works great, yesterday it worked great. This morning, boot-up, start Bricscad, open file. First stop. "this drawing needs recovery". Great. So i hit recover to open. Solid command, this 'recover'... Working great for the last 14 days, as i needed it. Probably more than i should have. It's a routine. Open, fail. recover, work.

After cca 10 minutes I started working with some block point. Easy block, 2 lines (continious, by layer) and a circle. Added attribute, to give it a number. Not scripted, i don't know how o script, would love to, i just don't. So, simple little block. Copied it 8 times across the drawing. Again, it started to stutter... i knew.. saved the file. The filesize has increased beyond my understanding.

I know i look lilke a bashing prick, but guys, come on. You all say "in the latest version" in "in version 16" or "in version 17". Two words: COPY, PASTE. And now relate this to "version 17".

The file was drawn completeley in BricsCad with the exception to some blocks (shouldn't be a problem) and a site survey plan (referenced). Maybe a hatch or two and a linetype was from Qscape. So there should be no problem

I would send the file for examination. Thank you for allowing me to do that Hans, but i am missing deadlines here. I have no time for this...  i'll pay 5% penalty this time. It's a fact. Soooo... Thank you? For allowing me to seek help regarding the problem that shouldn't even exist... ? 

Just frustrated. No need to answer this thread anymore. Close it if you like, admin. If i by some miracle manage to deliver this plans today (or better yet, probably some future day) i'll send the files for examination, so you can have your "fun".

To a guy, that says read help and to developer, that is !allowing! me to send the files... No comment. Just... No comment.

increasing filesize.jpg

Roy Klein Gebbinck

OK Marko, no problem if you do not appreciate the help I was trying to provide.
I am still interested in learning what is wrong with your drawings, but I guess we will never know.

Dan Wiseman

 Hi Marko,

Please do send the dwg to Bricsys though when you get a chance.   You may be doing someone else a massive favour down the line!

The issue (file bloat, copying issues) does sound awfully similar to dgn file contamination.  Which was originally an AutoCAD bug and acts a bit like a virus. Just one contaminated block would affect your entire drawing.   I wonder if those few blocks or xrefed layout were generated by pre AutoCAD 2014 SP1?  

Anyway perhaps the link below may help:

https://www.bricsys.com/en_GB/support/index.jsp#77a=397

Good luck with the deadline!

Hans De Backer

Hello Marko,

if only you would allow us to investigate your drawing(s), we could find out what causes the extremely slow copy operations and there is a very real chance that we can provide you with a repaired version, in a timely fashion, with minimal delay.
Why not give us a chance to help you meet your deadline?

Kind regards,
Hans

Marko Klemenčič

 i have submited the files probably an hour ago already... (SR 72921)

the deadline is gone. I am fighting this for a week already. and the financial consequences aren't the biggest problem. (well, there are, significant for me, but...) it's the reputation. That can't be measured.

the only file form autocad (i guess) was site survey plan i got.

I don't know what to do. Go read couple hundered pages on related problems? where to start? try every thing imaginable?

Thanks Dan, i'll try this method now. 

Marko Klemenčič

 @Dan: Error Message: Could not load file or assembly 'file:///C:\Users\marko\Documents\WORK\DgnLsPurge.dll' or one of its dependencies. Operation is not supported. (Exception from HRESULT: 0x80131515)

Dan Wiseman

 Apologies Marko, same for me.  Anyway, over to Bricsys now!  

Hopefully you or they will post back here with the conclusions.

Marko Klemenčič

 So, with help of support the problem was solved. Hans De Backer is hero of the day.

In short, i updated to 17.1.11 (from 17.1.09) and run AUDIT command. In technical language;

"The drawings contained a huge ACAD_ASSOCNETWORK dictionary - this is where associations between entities are stored.

The associations in these drawings have no 'action body' attached to them, in other words, when something happens with entity A, all associated entities will be notified, and normally some action like e.g. 'move along with A' should be defined, but here, due to the missing action body, nothing would happen anyway, so it is better to discard such useless associations.

In V17.1.10 we extended the AUDIT functionality to discard empty associations, so in order to repair such drawings yourself, it suffices to download the most recent V17 release."

Waiting for Santa to tell how these empty associations got into the drawing.

Seems like it runs like a clockwork again. Hopefully this was the only problem.

What i have learned:
- Update. Even if it's for no reason.
- When everything fails, contact support ASAP. It's never that late, until it's too late.

benjamin schlanz

I dont have V17 for the moment, can i also do this in V16 somehow?
Maybe it also fixes my problem.

Roy Klein Gebbinck

@Benjamin:
Just try the code in the 2nd link in post #4. If you problem is the same as Marko's (2D constraints bloat) it should fix the issue.

benjamin schlanz

Thanks. Ok, so thats not my problem
But i figured out, it seems to be, that i loaded two identical Xrefs in the same drawing with different names. He doesnt seem to like that. Which is shouldnt be the case normally.