Linetype scale in Paperspace gone batty!

Tom Foster

Why are Linetype scales (incl linetype Batting) suddenly showing up in Paperspace as half what they are in Modelspace?

ALANH

Is it PSLTSCALE needs to be switched.

Tom Foster

PSLTSCALE is On (1) for both the paperspace sheet and the individual viewport. If Off (0), dashed lines don't display as dashed but continuous, and Batting displays as a continuous line - so On (1) is correct - but still all Linetypes are displaying at half the scale they correctly show in modelspace.

Roy Klein Gebbinck

If the linetypes should not be scaled with the VP scale, then PSLTSCALE must be set to 0. And PSLTSCALE applies to the whole DWG.

Tom Foster

I do want linetypes to be scaled with the VP scale (1:100), so PSLTSCALE is correctly set to 1 - but dashed and Batting lines display in paperspace at half the scale that's expected
"PSLTSCALE applies to the whole DWG" - so no need to apply it to each PS sheet? But I thought it's applied to each PS viewport separately, optionally on or off per viewport?

Tom Foster

There's a 0.5 scale factor in play, somewhere.

Anthony Apostolaros

Tom Foster said:

...... If Off (0), dashed lines don't display as dashed but continuous, and Batting displays as a continuous line .....

Can you post a dwg file showing that? I can't find any way to make it happen with psltscale=0. Except maybe if you just need to regen.

Anthony Apostolaros

Roy Klein Gebbinck said:

.... PSLTSCALE applies to the whole DWG.

Do you mean the whole .DWG file? In my v17, I find that each layout within a file can have its own PSLTSCALE value. See attached .DWG file.

Roy Klein Gebbinck

Anthony Apostolaros said:

Roy Klein Gebbinck said:

.... PSLTSCALE applies to the whole DWG.

Do you mean the whole .DWG file? In my v17, I find that each layout within a file can have its own PSLTSCALE value. See attached .DWG file.

Oops, you are right! Thanks for correcting me.

Tom Foster

In making up Anthony's demo dwg by WBLOCKing a bit of the original, the PS view of same comes out perfect.
Copy-pasting into a virgin dwg cures so much, never finding out what was wrong.
Now to recreate 22 paperspace sheets, prob 35 viewports. No thanks.
Is it really not possible to copy Page setups from one dwg to another in Drawing Explorer?

Tom Foster

In https://forum.bricsys.com/discussion/34608/copy-paperspace-layouts-from-one-dwg-to-another I asked this and fs_at12 answered:

right click on Tab,
New from Template,
set from dwt to dwg,
select your dwg, from where you want your layout.
enter
tatatataaaa
works just for one layout

but this reimports the fault. Do I really have to recreate the Page setups from scratch?

Tom Foster

So here's the demo dwg. After WBLOCKING in a bit of the original dwg, I created PS view 16 from scratch and it's fine. but PS view Layout2-16 I imported using fs_at12's method above and it has the fault.

Note - most of the linework in modelspace is inside a Block. I thought maybe its modelspace Linetype scale might have become 0.5, but no.

What do the gents think?

Anthony Apostolaros

Tom Foster said:

There's a 0.5 scale factor in play, somewhere.

Maybe LTSCALE? That's a factor that is applied to the CELTSCALE's of all entities. But that shouldn't make a line have a different number of dashes in the viewport than it does in modelspace when PSLTSCALE = 0.

There are also various ANNO settings. Those are all a mystery to me. And there's MSLTSCALE, which might turn those ANNO settings on or off.

Anthony Apostolaros

Tom Foster said:

In making up Anthony's demo dwg by WBLOCKing a bit of the original, the PS view of same comes out perfect.
Copy-pasting into a virgin dwg cures so much, never finding out what was wrong.
Now to recreate 22 paperspace sheets, prob 35 viewports. No thanks.
Is it really not possible to copy Page setups from one dwg to another in Drawing Explorer?

If pasting viewports into a blank file fixes the problem, then the problem must not be with the viewports. It must be something in the layout. So you just have to get one good layout, maybe by "From template," and then maybe copy that page setup to all the others at once in Drawing Explorer. Or copy the layout 22 times and then CopyBase/Paste everything from the old ones to the new ones.

I've gotten files from other people that I couldn't fix except by copy/pasting everything, modelspace included, into a new file.

Tom Foster

"If pasting viewports into a blank file fixes the problem" - it doesn't, it imports the problem. Same 'from template'. I do have a good viewport, by creating it from scratch.

Maybe I could copy from the good one just the settings on its Page setup dialog (not sure how) but I'll still have to create the sheets and viewports and populate/scale/frame them from scratch, maybe able to copy/paste the paperspace annotation.

I'd sure like any more ideas where that 0.5 scaling's coming from. Actually, I'll do a SR.

Roy Klein Gebbinck

The confusion is caused by the MSLTSCALE. Because it is set to 1 the linetypes in modelspace are scaled by the annotation scale. The combination of MSLTSCALE=1 and PSLTSCALE=1 can make sense if you want linetypes to look the same on the printed (PDF) page irrespective of the scale of the paperspace viewport. But not if you use the Batting linetype instead of a hatch pattern for insulation.

I suggest you use these setting:
MSLTSCALE=0
PSLTSCALE=0 (for every layout)
LTSCALE=100

MDunn

Maybe crazy here, but could it be a "too many viewports" issue?
Had this problem many yrs. ago w/ Acad when I added one more VP. The dwg was working fine until that one last VP was added.
Just a thought.
Mike

Tom Foster

Thanks Roy for the clear advice.

With linetypes (excluding Batting, Zigzag etc which are 'continuous' lengthwise but have width which is adjusted by the scaling) -
the standard offerings like DASHED have tiny spacing like 0.5 line, 0.25 gap, which may be OK in inches but in milimetres are only suitable for mecheng details; for architecture they need scaling-up. My own set of linetypes, self-made way back, follow suit, like TREM (tom's Removed) 1.2 line, 1.2 gap, which back then I assumed would be in milimetres and scaled-up x50 or x100.

I've settled for:
MSLTSCALE either 0 or 1 - seems to make no difference
PSLTSCALE 0
CANNOSCALE 1:1
LTSCALE 50 - is what makes my set of linetypes, self-made way back, look right at 1:200, 1:100, 1:50, 1:20, 1:5 and 1:2.
For batting I'm happy to set each bit of Batting to give its desired width e.g. at CANNOSCALE 1:1, for 75mm thick insulation its LTSCALE set to 75/2x1/1 = 37.5

The alternative, I thought, was to use CANNOSCALE rather than LTSCALE to scale-up my linetypes; then
CANNOSCALE 1:50
LTSCALE 1;
in that case, for 75mm thick insulation Batting LTSCALE set to 75/2x 1/50 = 0.75.

But I couldn't find a combination of MSLTSCALE and PSLTSCALE which would then work at all those scales in paperspace. Is that what you were telling me in your last post above? It was the cause of my original complaint. Having CANNOSCALE = 1:1 seems to be the cure.

After all these years, why have I only run into this now??!

Roy Klein Gebbinck

Tom Foster said:

After all these years, why have I only run into this now??!

I can't answer that. But the Dashed linetype in your DWG is from default.lin (=imperial). This may have triggered your confusion.

Tom Foster

Don't think so - it was due to using CANNOSCALE rather than LTSCALE. I haven't used DASHED linetype - can only think it's in the imported Velux drawing.
Tho, I can't find my where my own TREM (tom's Removed) etc linetypes are stored - not where I thought in folder t's linetypes, nor in default.lin, iso.lin. Don't worry - all is working well now.