LTSCALE, MSLTSCALE, PSLTSCALE

Tom Foster
Tom Foster
in 2D Drafting
After all these years, in 2D I still can't get my head round LTSCALE, MSLTSCALE, PSLTSCALE and Page Setup>Plot scale>Scale lineweights, which works both for dashed lines and BATTING, ZIGZAG etc.

I have LTS =1, MSLTS and PSLTS = 1 (on) and Scale linetypes tickbox checked.
In Modelspace, BATTING is set to LTS = .025 to show 50mm wide
In Paperspace, a viewport at standard scale 1:100 displays the BATTING correctly,
but in a viewport at standard scale 1:50 BATTING displays half as wide as it should.

Can anyone help me get this right, once and for all?!

Comments

  • Anthony Apostolaros
    Anthony Apostolaros
    edited January 2023
    Each entity has a Linetype Scale property, which can be set in the Properties panel.
    - CELTSCALE is the Linetype Scale that will be assigned to new entities.
    - LTSCALE is a factor that's applied to the Linetype Scale properties of all entities globally.
    - PSLTSCALE is a switch that can be set on or off for each layout tab. If it's on, the scale of each viewport in that tab automatically applies another factor to the Linetype Scale properties of all entities only when seen in that viewport. If it's off, no additional scale factor is applied in that tab.
    - MSLTSCALE is a switch that affects only the model tab. It adjusts all Linetype Scale properties in accordance with the annotation scale.

    If you want to set the Linetype Scale properties of entities so that they look right in the model tab, and then have them look the same in layout tabs, you could set PSLTSCALE=OFF for each layout tab. There are also more complicated ways to do that. And if you just want to make linetype scaling more complicated in general, you can set LTSCALE to something other than 1, so that it alters the linetype scale appearance of all entities everywhere.

    You've probably been working in a complicated way for years without knowing it, because the default setting for PSLTSCALE is ON and you probably didn't know that and therefore had to do complicated things to make linetypes look the same in viewports as in the model tab. So changing to the uncomplicated way now would probably require changing the Linetype Scale properties of all entities you paste in from old drawings.

    I set PSLTSCALE=OFF for all layout tabs, and I set LTSCALE=1, and I set the Linetype Scale property for each entity so that it looks right in the model tab while I'm drawing it. In actual practice, I usually set entity properties by certain custom commands I have, most often a kind of reverse Matchprop command that prompts me to pick an existing entity from which to clone a newly-created and/or still-selected entity or set of entities. For Batting lines, I set the Linetype Scale property = the actual width of the batting.

    See also https://forum.bricsys.com/discussion/33779/linetypes-dont-display
  • Tom Foster
    Tom Foster
    edited January 2023
    Thanks v much Anthony.

    Maybe my problem is, as implied in your last para of https://forum.bricsys.com/discussion/33779/linetypes-dont-display, I don't want to have to predict, while in Modelspace, what scale its eventual destination Viewport will have.

    In current scheme, I was assuming that all viewports would be at 1:100, but realised that detail was lost or congested, so altered some viewports to 1:50. That had the result described - that BATTING which looked right in a Paperspace>viewport at 1:100, got halved in width at 1:50, even though Page Setup>Plot scale>Scale lineweights is ticked.

    I want BATTING to look as it does in Modelspace, regardless of whether Paperspace>viewport is set to 1:1 or 1:1250!

    AFAIK, that means that PSLTSCALE must be set to 1 = on?

    Meanwhile, I realise that ANNOSCALE was set to 1:100, INSUNITS to 4.

    In a new dwg, INSUNITS = 1, CANNOSCALE = 1:1, CELTSCALE = 1, LTSCALE = 1, MSLTSCALE = 1 (on), PSLTSCALE (for each PS tab) = 0 (off), Settings>Length units = mm.

    I draw a BATTING line, give it LTSCALE = 25, expect it to show 50mm wide, but it's 500 wide, so there's a factor of 10 set somewhere. Apart from that, it displays correctly, both in Modelspace and in Paperspace, whether I set the viewport to 1:50 or 1:100.

    So I think I have the settings I need - thanks to you Anthony in both threads - except where's that factor of 10 coming in?
  • Tom Foster
    Tom Foster
    I see the code (?) for BATTING in default.lin is
    *BATTING,Batting SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
    A,.0001,-.1,[BAT,ltypeshp.shx,x=-.1,s=.1],-.2,[BAT,ltypeshp.shx,r=180,x=.1,s=.1],-.1

    All those .1's - I guess that's the 10 (or 0.1) factor? So I just have to remember to think in cm not mm when setting BATTING width.
  • Anthony Apostolaros
    Anthony Apostolaros
    edited January 2023
    Tom Foster said:

    ....
    I want BATTING to look as it does in Modelspace, regardless of whether Paperspace>viewport is set to 1:1 or 1:1250!
    AFAIK, that means that PSLTSCALE must be set to 1 = on?
    ....

    OFF if you want it to look the same as in the model tab.
    "On" means "Yes, please alter linetype scales automatically in paper space."
    "Off" means "No, don't mess with it. Keep it looking just like I drew it."

    My units are always inches. If I want batting to be 6 inches thick, I give it a Linetype Scale property of 6. I don't know about automatic changing of mm to cm or vice versa, though I remember there was something funny like that the one time I did work in metric, for a project in South Sudan. I think it was something about viewport scale.

    I don't know about ANNOSCALE. I avoid anything with "anno" in its name or description.

    I usually do have a scale in mind when I start a drawing. If I change my mind later, I use custom commands to select all texts and mtexts and change their text height, and to select all dimensions and leaders and change their Dim Scale Overall property, and I change the Linetype Scale properties of all dashed lines, and sometimes lineweights. I try to avoid that, by making a viewport of it as soon as it's blocked out, before adding notes and dimensions.

  • Michael Mayer
    Michael Mayer
    edited January 2023
    Anthony Apostolaros said:


    My units are always inches.

    OMG,
    I always thought for years you were in Greece.

    And I have to state that I think that that publishing Scale thing
    is by far more complicated than it could be.
    (As Autocad behavior is, in my eyes in general, and misses any structure)
    I do not need much 2D or Plans but I also once tumbled into it.

    Why not just a VP Scale for a 1:1 Sheet/Paper Space and an option for
    all Annotation Elements (Texts, Symbols, Dimensions, ...) being scale
    dependent just or true 1:1 sized ?
  • Anthony Apostolaros
    Anthony Apostolaros
    edited January 2023
    Michael Mayer said:

    .... I always thought for years you were in Greece. ....

    No, though I've visited many times and loved it. I was born in the imperial homeland and never learned the metric system or any foreign languages. But I can sometimes identify other countries on a map.
  • Tom Foster
    Tom Foster
    edited January 2023
    That calls for a ;) and, as we used to say, a !
  • Michael Mayer
    Michael Mayer
    After my posting I was a bit in doubt and feared you could write that Greece went imperial secretly.

    I hope I will find your posts again, in case I will need some 2D plans.