Seeking reocmmendaiton for 3D Piping add-on

Joe Dunfee · April 2015

The company I work for regularly does piping diagrams, and I have been creating some 3D models, if it is necessary to be clear about how the pipes are routed. When I do this, I normally just do 2D polyline, and give them both width and thickness, so they look 3dimensions. I never include fittings.

I have been doing this with native BricsCAD, but I thought I should investigate what is out there as an add-on. I did a quick look at the application catalog, and saw many choices. Since most of them are not U.S. based companies, I realize I may run into some difficulties using standard U.S. sizes.

BricsCAD itself shows its European roots when you use their mechanical library and see that a #4 screw is listed by its decimal actual OD, rather than as a $4 screw. It takes a lot of time to learn all the aspects of a program to find these sorts of limitations. So, I am asking if anyone can recommend a piping utility that can do the following;

Main needs;

1) Handles typical U.S. sized fittings and pipe sizes well, and completely.

2) Will generate a 3D model of the piping system.

One of the systems I saw required you to insert each component as you went along, so you first needed to create the route using lines or other entities, and insert some sort of marker, such as a node, to indicate where to put a particular fitting. I was hoping for something that perhaps will only require me to create the route using a 3d polyline, and then it will automatically choose the simpler fittings (such as elbows) and insert them. The, it will permit me to introduce fittings, such as more T-fittings, and reducers, and automatically cut the pipe segments.

My ideal system will also route a pipe in 3D space, so that I don't have to create the entire pipe path first.

$1,000 is about the max money my company is likely to spend on an add-on like this.

Thank you for any recommendations.

-Joe

Tim Neumann · April 2015

I'd look into MechQ's piping utility. Think it's 599.00 by itself or get all three packages (general stuff, structural, piping) for under a grand. Other than that all I've found is big ticket add-ons for Sworks and the like. If you find something else please post it, as I'm in the piping field too.

Joe Dunfee · April 2015

I will probably go with Mech-Q's piping utility, if I can get it working. In installed the demo, and it did not installed fully, plus it ended up breaking some aspects of my BricsCAD v14. (I can't start a new drawing, though I can open an existing one).

The company is Australia based, and the US dealer could not help me, but set up an appointment for the Autstrialian support team to do some screen sharing with me to fix the problem.

The Mech-Q program does not do routing. So, I am hunting for a low cost or free program that can do that. I am not expecting much from that utility. No collusion detection or much other than me selecting a start point, and perhaps a direction, and an end point, and then the program creates a 3D polyline that gets from start to finish. I expect to have to stretch or edit it, but I figured that even such a basic program would make it easier to get a piping system started.

Ever see such a program?

-Joe

Joe Dunfee · April 2015

Mech-Q's piping utility is not working out for me. I have spent at least half a day installing and then fixing what it broke on my BricsCAD They are suggesting I reinstall BricsCAD and then again install Mech-Q, but I am afraid that it will just be a futile exercise, and don't want to invest more time.

Any other suggestions for Piping software with my requirements?

-Joe

Tim Neumann · April 2015

Take a look at svlele.com - A guy named Satish Lele from India came up with some 3rd party piping stuff that might be of some use. I'm glad you gave us a heads up on Mech-Q, it's probably more user-friendly with AutoCAD since that's what it's originally based on.

Joe Dunfee · April 2015

Thanks for the svele.com program reference, but as far as I can tell, it does not support standard US sizes. I e-mailed him a few days ago, but have not received a reply yet.

My Mech-Q woes are not over yet. I was able to get everything working after doing a windows restore. But, the uninstall/reinstall of BricsCAD lost a lot of customization, and I still have yet to get the various add-ons reinstalled. Many of them take manual efforts to install, so that process will take perhaps another half day. All told, the Mech-Q problem will cause me close to 1 1/2 day of work.

Part of that time, has been from the BricsCAD uninstall not really removing everything, so I could not really start fresh with BricsCAD.

-Joe

Alan Liddle · April 2015

Wow, that is not good news for Mech-Q; anyone from Mech-Q want to comment?

Joe Dunfee · April 2015

Regarding Mech-Q, they say they have BricsCAD users, but I don't know what version they are using. Neither the US rep nor the main company is that familiar with BricsCAD, so they couldn't help much with trying to fix the problem. I will add that I do feel they had good support staff who spent time with me trying to resolve my issues, they just didn't have the knowledge necessary to solve it.

I am now trying out the Svlele package. Their Isometric piping program is only $50 USD and does support US standard units. But, again I am having problems with their program. It is purely LISP driven, but they make no mention of BrisCAD. Rather they only mention AutoCAD and IntelliCAD. I just e-mailed their support, so we will see if we can resolve the issues.

Both Mech-Q and Svlele are on the opposite side of the globe from the U.S. So, support is going to be more difficult because of the time difference.

-joe

Joe Dunfee · April 2015

Some more bad news, the wwwwww.svele.com is no longer working adn now just shows a generic image. Though, it was working a few days ago. The program is only partially working for me, and he has not responded to my e-mail from yesterday morning either. And while 24 hrs response time is ideal for a company, it is not uncommon for things to go longer. It is possible the web site provider is the issue, and it will be fixed soon.

For now, I am still hunting for a piping solution.

-Joe

Joe Dunfee · April 2015

The www.svlele.com web site is back up. I will report back if we get it working.

-joe

Joe Dunfee · April 2015

My efforts with the Svlele program has not worked out so far. He made some modifications to the lisp to try to get it working, but the 1st round has not succeeded. So, my efforts to find an affordable solution continue.

I am now looking at the $600 USD Cadprofi utility, sold in the US through progeCAD. But, I am having difficulties with the progeCAD web site. There does not seem to be a phone number to call, and their screen to find a local dealer only takes you to an online order form. The biggest issue is that the Cadprofi software is completely omitted from their web site. So, perhaps they are no longer dealers for that utility.

Has anyone here had experience with the progeCAD company?

-Joe

Roy Klein Gebbinck · April 2015

Joe, some CADProfi applications are available in the Bricsys Application Catalog. Why don't you try that option?

Peter Görlich · April 2015

Hallo Joe, Cadprofi = 2D !!!

-Peter

Josip Magdalenić · April 2015

Hi!

I have 2d solutions and now is only for Ex Yugoslavia countrys. You can try AX3000, I think it is 3d solution and it cost more then 1000$.

Joe Dunfee · April 2015

Thank you Josip, but I think the language barrier will be a significant problem.

The cadProfi utilities are sold by progeCAD under their own name, progeBILLD. They describe some 3D functions in their manual, but don't elaborate about which functions they are. I could not find them in my BricsCAD install of their program, but I have now confirmed that their utility, when running under BricsCAD, does not support the 3D functions.

So, I think I am back to the MechQ as the only BricsCAD compatible program that supports the 3D piping that I would like to do. So, I will try again to see if I can get it going.

However, before I try again, I need to make very sure that I can get my current install back exactly they way it is now, in all aspects , with the 3rd party utilities as well. I lost roughly a day to my last attempt to use MechQ. In the end, I had to uninstall BricsCAD, but even that didn't remove the problem since the BricsCAD uninstall does not really remove everything related to bricsCAD. It is also possible that the MechQ utility also leaves parts of itself behind that creates problems. A Windows system restore was necessary, followed by a re-install of BricsCAD.

Was I am seeking now ,is a very clear set of instructions about how to get back to where I was before I reinstall MechQ. Here is my current attempt to outline that;

A) Backup everything related to BricsCAD.

1) Make sure windows does a restore point before I install MechQ.

2) Export a BricsCAD Profile.

3) Copy the entire BricsCAD directory; C:\Program Files (x86)\Bricsys\BricsCAD V14 en_US

If the MechQ install fails, uninstall everything related to the failed install.

1) Uninstall MechQ.

2) Uninstall BricsCAD.

3) Do a windows system restore using the restore point created at step A1.

C) Try to get back to my previous state;

1) Reinstall BricsCAD.

2) Restore BricsCAD to its previous state.

a) Copy the old BricsCAD directory over top of the current version.

b) Import the personal profile I had created at step A2.

My past efforts to use BricsCAD's user profiles was not successful at restoring BricsCAD. I don't know if I am somehow mis-using it, or perhaps have more expectations for the utility than what it is able to provide. I would also love to avoid the windows system restore process, so, if my approach above is overkill and you are confident of that, please let me know. Of course, you don't know what MechQ does with its install/uninstall routines. so, that will always be an unknown.

Should I add some editing of the registry to hunt-down both the BricsCAD and MechQ related stuff?

-Joe

Joe Dunfee · April 2015

I will add, for those who read this thread later, that to see all the piping related utilities in the BricsCAD application page, you must do two separate searches. A search for "piping" brings up some of the programs, and a search for "pipe" brings up some that were not in the first search.

-Joe

Owen Wengerd · April 2015

Hi Joe, I would add backing up the HKLM\Software\Bricsys\Bricscad\V15 and HKCU\Software\Bricsys\Bricscad\V15 registry keys.

Some other ideas:

1) Use a virtual machine for testing. I use VMware Workstation, but I think you can get Virtual PC now for free from Microsoft.

2) Use Process Monitor to monitor system changes made by MechQ so you can undo them surgically rather than restoring everything from scratch.

Joe Dunfee · April 2015

Thank you Mr Wengerd for the suggestions. I started looking into the idea of the Microsoft Virtual PC. The Windows website basically says that this is a program that creates a virtual machine... not exactly an informative description. I came across an article that highly recommended www.virtualbox.org.

But, I am still a little uncertain how this would be utilized in testing BricsCAD applications. This is my current guess about how the process would run for this purpose;

1) Install the Virtual Machine [VM] software, and configure it to run a Windows 7 environment.

2) Install BricsCAD onto the VM.

a) First BricsCAD must be un-authorized in the main system.

b) Install BricsCAD on the VM.

c) Put authorization code into the BricsCAD that runs on the VM.

3) Install the BricsCAD add-ons to be tested on the VM.

4) After I am satisfied with the application

a) Un-authorize BricsCAD on the VM.

b) Re-authorize BricsCAD on the actual computer.

Is that how your would recommend using the VM as part of the testing process? The process is certainly not hassle-free, and I expect it will even take longer than the process I suggested earlier. But, perhaps a more reliable way to prevent messing the current BricsCAD installation. And the time I invest into learning about, and setting up the virtual machine, I can use for testing other applications.

-Joe

Robt Deans · April 2015

A bit easier, you may (?) be able to install questionable app in a sandbox.
(However, a program that would normally install a driver and require a reboot to work, may not be able to do so.)
Alternative: Image your machine (which is good practice, anyway).
Install app. If it works to your satisfaction, fine. If something breaks, reinstall from your image.

Owen Wengerd · April 2015

Joe, I would just run BricsCAD in trial mode in the VM. It undermines the purpose of using a VM if your license is held hostage, and after all trying things out is exactly the purpose for which trial mode is intended.

James Maeding · May 2015

Joe,

I deal with many cad stations, mostly acad, but some bcad too, and usually the worst an add-on does is swap out the main menu for its own, or slide some code in the startup lisps (acad.lsp, acaddoc.lsp, acad2000.lsp...for acad, On_doc_load_default.lsp and On_start_default.lsp for bcad).

Those two issues are easily fixed by starting bcad and doing both (findfile "On_doc_load_default.lsp") and (findfile "On_start_default.lsp") on command line to see where they are if found at all. Then lok in text editor for any new code, and also the dates to see if modified from that install.

Once you clean the startup lisps, start bcad with new profile. How does that behave?

If that did not do it, we must rename the profile folders like C:\Users\james\AppData\Roaming\Bricsys\BricsCAD\ to old or anything. Then when bcad starts, it will recreate that folder and thus reset any tweaks the mech install did.

If that does not work, nuke the registry key (after exporting first to.reg file):

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Bricsys\BricsCAD\V15x64 or whatever version you have. Then reset profile and start again, what doesa that do?

If its beyond that, I would ask the mech software guys what their install is doing, as they will be screwing up many others and likely will take time to get it fixed.

Curious to hear how it goes, as using VM's is a bit of work to set up, but also truly the safest way like Owen says.

Joe Dunfee · May 2015

In installed VirtuaBox by Oracle, with the help of a friend. And even though it is a program he has used before, it took over 2 hours to get it working. But, now I have a place to test software without putting my current system at risk.

I ended up going back to Mech-Q, as I was unable to find any other software in this price category that both had the features I need, and was possible to get working.

The Mech-Q install in the "sandbox" was done on a fresh install of BricsCAD v14. It didn't install properly, but it was possible to manually load the menus and set the path with the guidance of their support staff. But, there are still some bugs. Inserting a 3D threaded elbow doesn't prompt the user for the final rotation, and the elbow always is oriented flat to the WCS. But, if you do a continuous pipe run (a set of lines, NOT a 3D poly), the program will automatically put an elbow if you select two consecutive lines that are connected.

Unfortunately, their programmers are backlogged. So, it will be at least a few weeks before they look into it. The Australian site (the main company) was non-responsive to support requests. But, phone calling the US dealer (CADavenue) normally works. Unfortuantly, CADavenue doesn't have BricsCAD, nor are they familiar with BricsCAD. The do have Netmeeting, so they were able to get the program working by using screen sharing.

-Joe

Joe Dunfee · May 2015

I found a LISP routine to create a pipe along a path, after prompting the user for the inside and outside dimensions of the pipe. The path can be a number of different objects.

The only issue I am having with it is that it deletes the path, and I need to retain it so that I can easily edit the path and then re-create the pipe. I can see where it deletes the circles it creates, but that is not a concern. I just need to keep the path. But, I am not familiar enough with LISP to decipher the command where the extrusion is created. Perhaps one of you might be able to enlighten me. I think the line I need to work with is;

(vla-addExtrudedSolidAlongPath Space ext_reg obj)

Though, I am puzzled why it is after the boolean operation which I think subtracts the inside diameter of the pipe. I actually would prefer to omit the inner diameter, since that will only add complexity to the model and not benefit my work.

[code]

;;;===================================================================

;;; CURVE2TUBE -Gilles Chanteau- (gile)

;;; Extrudes a "donut region" along a curve(s) object(s).

;;;

;;;1) It creates a pipe with an inner and outer diameter thus creating a true pipe.

;;;2) Lets you specify the path of the pipe by selecting simple and complex objects

;;; such as polylines with arc segments, 3D polylines, arcs, circles, ellipses…

;;;3) Creates the pipe/tube as a 3D solid objects which will allow you to use the

;;; union and subtract commands if needed.

;;;

;;; type CURVE2TUBE to start

;;; type the outer radius

;;; type the inner radius

;;; Select object to define the path of the pipe

;;;===================================================================

(defun c:curve2tube (/ AcDoc Space ext_rad

int_rad ss obj start

ext_circ int_circ ext_reg int_reg

norm

)

(vl-load-com)

(defun vlen (v)

(sqrt (vxv v v))

)

(defun vxv (v1 v2)

(apply '+ (mapcar '* v1 v2))

)

(defun vunit (v / l)

(if (/= 0 (setq l (vlen v)))

(mapcar '(lambda (x) (/ x l)) v)

)

(setq AcDoc (vla-get-ActiveDocument (vlax-get-acad-object)))

(setq Space

(if (= 1 (getvar "CVPORT"))

(vla-get-PaperSpace AcDoc)

(vla-get-ModelSpace AcDoc)

)

(if

(and

(setq ext_rad (getdist "\nExternal radius: "))

(setq int_rad (getdist "\nInternal radius: "))

(setq ss

(ssget

'((-4 . "

(0 . "ARC,CIRCLE,ELLIPSE,LINE,LWPOLYLINE")

(-4 . "

(0 . "POLYLINE")

(-4 . "

(-4 . "&")

(70 . 112)

(-4 . "NOT>")

(-4 . "AND>")

(-4 . "

(0 . "SPLINE")

(-4 . "&")

(70 . 8)

(-4 . "AND>")

(-4 . "OR>")

)

(progn

(vla-StartUndoMark AcDoc)

(foreach path (vl-remove-if 'listp (mapcar 'cadr (ssnamex ss)))

(setq obj (vlax-ename->vla-object path))

(setq start (vlax-curve-getPointAtParam

obj

(vlax-curve-getStartParam obj)

)

(setq ext_circ (vla-addCircle Space (vlax-3d-Point start) ext_rad))

(setq int_circ (vla-addCircle Space (vlax-3d-Point start) int_rad))

(setq norm (vunit (vlax-curve-getFirstDeriv

obj

(vlax-curve-getStartParam obj)

)

(vla-put-Normal ext_circ (vlax-3d-point norm))

(vla-put-Normal int_circ (vlax-3d-point norm))

(setq ext_reg (car (vlax-invoke Space 'addRegion (list ext_circ))))

(setq int_reg (car (vlax-invoke Space 'addRegion (list int_circ))))

(vla-Boolean ext_reg acSubtraction int_reg)

(vla-addExtrudedSolidAlongPath Space ext_reg obj)

(mapcar 'vla-delete (list obj ext_circ int_circ ext_reg))

)

(vla-EndUndoMark AcDoc)

)

(princ)

)

[/code]

-Joe

martin@enco.us · May 2015

Try changing

(mapcar 'vla-delete (list obj ext_circ int_circ ext_reg))
       )
       (vla-EndUndoMark AcDoc)
     )
)

to

(mapcar 'vla-delete (list ext_circ int_circ ext_reg))
       )
       (vla-EndUndoMark AcDoc)
     )
)

James Maeding · May 2015

ok that code is one way to do it, but why bother when the sweep command is likely all you need.

Only issue is sweep sometimes fails on what it thinks are sharp bends. Try it though.

The code looks like this:

(SETQ CIRCENAME (CT-DRAWCIRCX (LIST 0.0 0.0 0.0) (/ DIA 2.0) NIL NIL))

        (SETQ DELOBJ (GETVAR "DELOBJ"))
        (SETVAR "DELOBJ" 0)
        (vl-catch-all-apply '(lambda () (COMMAND* ".SWEEP" CIRCENAME "" PL-ENAME))) ;(COMMAND* ".SWEEP" CIRCENAME "" (CAR (ENTSEL)))
        (SETVAR "DELOBJ" DELOBJ)

I did not include the ct-drawcirclex, but the idea here is you use sweep to do things.

You can imagine why it was a big deal when sweep was added to bacd. What are your real needs though? Do you need a prog to design the pipe locations, or generate the 3d? We have used the above code to replace what civil3d tries to do with pipe networks. I do lisp for a living so can do anything needed once I understand the scope.

James Maeding · May 2015

a screenshot if you are wondering how far we take the sweep command....

Pipes Resamp-50.jpg

Joe Dunfee · May 2015

The purpose is simply an automation of what the sweep command will do. The main task that the LISP routine handles is that it means I don't have to create the circles properly oriented. Though, a benfit of drawing those circles, is that I can keep them in place. Then, when I need to re-create the pipe, I can extrude the same circle, without having to look up what size pipe it should be. I am still trying out different approaches.

I did find one that seemed to have extra features, especially that it had a menu system to select the pipe size, rather than having to type in the dimensions But, I could not get the routine installed. Here is where I found that one,

http://cadtips.cadalyst.com/linear-objects/automatically-draw-pipe

My end goal is to plan some piping routing, and illustrate it for the installer. I had thought they would want a full isometric schematic, but they don't, since they do a lot of the instillation decisions themselves. And since a lot of the pipe has to cross-over, I can optimize the design to reduce that, and reduce the number of fittings. The fewer fittings, the more efficient the piping flow.

I learned a long time ago that providing too much information is both a waste of time, and can even cause the recipient to gloss over the information, and perhaps miss something that they need to be aware of. But, on a complex system, it can help them a lot if I model it for them.

So, I am not including fittings, only showing routing. In the past, I tried just using a 3-d polyline, but I found that it can be difficult to determine which pipe is closer to your view, when lines cross. I even tried using 2D polyline, since they can be set with both thickness and width, and appear like a square tube. But, that was not ideal.

Also, I had hoped that if I used solid models for the piping, I could do some interference checking. But, that is not as straight forward as I had hoped. Sure, I can just use the solid interfere command on two lines, but with 24 lines, that is not viable to do. I had hoped I could just select all the pipes and use a command that would tell me if any of them interfere with each other. I just now realized that I may not have such a command available. Please let me know if I am wrong.

Thanks for any suggestions.

-Joe

James Maeding · May 2015

so you are saying you lay out the pipe centerline in 3d, then want to make a tube from that at some diameter.

We have a database that we use to make the 3d pline centerline, then a tool called "makepipe" and you tell it the dia.

We record the dia as xdata on the 3d pline, so when you update, it grabs the dia, erases the old, draws new 3d pline, then does the sweep using dia, and stores the dia on the 3d pline again. You could do all kinds of things this way, and never care about the circle. Note that sweep does not need the circle drawn perp to the pline. I draw at 0,0 and erase after.

How do you define your pipes though? Do you have some file with xyz locations of bends, and radii? Or do you just draw in the drawing once? You mentioned updating, so maybe you mean you want the routine to either pick a pline and ask dia, or pick 3d solid for dia. I should mention I store the handle of the orig 3d pline on the solid so it knows its parent, but you could have it just ask you to pick the solid, then pline to get around that complexity. That would be fun to write.

Joe Dunfee · May 2015

In my case, I am creating the 3D polyline in model space. There is no external database.

I can see the Xdata being very useful for that sort of tool. I have a utility that puts the length of a polyline in a text field in a leader. If there were a way to call out that Xdata later, then that would make it extremely useful. I can pay for that sort of tool.

I wonder if the the interference command in BricsCAD can be automated between mutiple objects. In other words, a utility that prompts you to select several solids. Then, it checkes each possible pair of objects to see if there is an interference.

I am more than a little confused about the interfere command in BricsCAD. Perhaps it does what I would like, and I am just not understanding how it works nor the explanation in the help file. I watched a video showing the AutoCAD version of this, and apparently you can just select one set, and it will check everything in that set. But, BricsCAD does not do anything if I only select one set of solids.

-Joe

James Maeding · May 2015

yah, we use xdata on everything, and even xrecord data when storing large amounts. The subroutines to do that were posted to the Adesk DG's years ago, I will give them for free. Explain exactly how you want the tool to work, prompts and so on, and I can make that.

I do not know about the interference command in bcad. I can say most serious model coordinators use adesk navisworks manage, which is like $8k, or part of the design suite ultimate if you have one (not lilkely). I am also interested in tools that check solids for conflicts.

I would extract the solids data from acad entities, and feed into some program done in .net and feed the results back to acad. I have not found such a .net compatible library yet. I do not do c++ or java so do need the .net wrapper for any of those.

Joe Dunfee · May 2015

I revisited the idea of just using the built-in extrude command. The major challenge with that is if I need to change the piping run at all. Since part of this process is trial-and error as I figure out the path, this can get frustrating to have to re-extrude the pipe.

Before I go into the idea of using Mr. Maeding's utility, let me revisit the "stretch solids" idea, since that is the only reason to need to re-build the pipe. If I can simply use a stretch command on the pipe solid model, then there is no need to re-create the pipe. See the other thread I started, "Stretching multiple solids".

https://forum.bricsys.com/discussion/26212

So, Mr. Maeding, if you really feel up to it, here is how I would envision such a utility;

It assumes the user has already created a 3D polyline as the centerline of the path.

When command starts, a dialog box opens that includes a list of standard pipe sizes, or the ability to type in any value for an O.D. and I.D.

The creation of the internal hollow should be optional.

If the user wants to edit the path for a pipe already created, perhaps the following sequence is followed.

The user either manually deletes the pipe he wants to stretch, or perhaps the utility has a command to delete all pipe it has tagged as its own creation.

The user exits the utility and then edits the path as he wishes. But, is careful to leave the original object.

The user restarts the utility, and uses a command to rebuild the piping. This has sub options to rebuild only selected or all centerlines that have been tagged by the utility.

Bonus points are awarded if the designer can simply use a stretch command that includes the centerline of an existing pipe. A "reactor" senses that the 3d polyline has been edited, and automatically re-creates the pipe. Though, if this can take much time, the utility should prompt to ask if a rebuild is desired. Note that I only have a vague idea of what a "reactor" is, so I may not suggesting something that is possible.

More bonus points are granted if the designer adds the some simple automatic routing as follows;

Prompt the user to choose a start point, and click in an orthographic direction to indicate the direction the piping should start going.

Prompt the user to choose and end point, and click in the direction the pipe should approach the point.

The utility draws the path connecting the points using a 3D polyline.

I realize the above will create ambiguous situations, where the program won't know which direction to draw the pipe. An example is if the start and end points are given opposite directions. The utility has to route in opposite directions, and loop around, but it could do so by looping over the top, or to one side, etc. But, I suspect that even if it does not prompt the user to choose a direction, it would be fairly easy to stretch the 3D polyline to the desired direction after it was created.

Since many piping runs are orthogonal another nice feature would be for the 3dpolyline to have constraints so that lines perpendicular to the ground plain can be locked in the X or Y orientation, and segments that transition in Z value stay in the true vertical orientation . So, for example, if you use grips to move one of the points, another point at a different z-elevation would also move. But, I don't think the 2D constraints can be applied to 3d-polylines. This may be doable using rectors, but that is really getting into a feature that BricsCAD may need to have to build into a future version.

So are these "pipe dreams"?

-Joe

Seeking reocmmendaiton for 3D Piping add-on

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